The Real Dad Podcast
Each week, these four fathers cover a wide range of "Dad" related topics, from the joys of watching your child grow up to the challenges of balancing work and family life. With their unique blend of humor and authenticity, Dave, Joey, Brian, and Mark provide a refreshing perspective on what it means to be a dad in today's world.
Tune in for the laughs, stay for the heartfelt conversations about the struggles and triumphs of parenting. Whether you're a seasoned dad or a soon-to-be father, "The Real Dad Podcast" is the perfect place to connect with other dads and get the support you need.
Join us on this journey of fatherhood, and subscribe to "The Real Dad Podcast" today!
The Real Dad Podcast
Parenting Teens Without Losing The Relationship
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The fastest way to start a parenting argument is one question: “Why can’t I have the apps everyone else has?” We sit with that discomfort and talk through what it really costs to hold the line on screen time, social media, and safety when your kid just wants to fit in and you’re tired of being the bad guy.
From there, we zoom out into the messy reality of raising kids who are changing right in front of you. Dave shares what it feels like watching his son slide into “gamer zone” and then snap, shut down, or lash out, and how different everything looks after food, outdoor time, and a real reset. We get into dopamine, moderation, and why video games aren’t automatically the villain, but also why some kids simply cannot self-regulate yet. If you’re parenting a tween or teen, this is the tightrope: freedom, boundaries, and the relationship you’re trying to protect at the same time.
Then it gets personal. We talk burnout, hustle culture, and the pressure to build things while still showing up at home. We go into therapy, communication failures from the generation before us, and a weird but honest truth: sometimes the place you “recharge” is also the place that can pull you toward isolation. The thread that ties it all together is community, because parenting is heavy, and trying to carry it alone doesn’t make you tougher, it just makes it quieter.
If this hits home, subscribe, share this with a parent who needs it, and leave a review so more moms and dads can find the show. What boundary are you holding right now that nobody else seems to understand?
Saying No To Risky Apps
SPEAKER_09Why don't you let Ben have those apps?
SPEAKER_12Because I know how detrimental they would be to him. Okay. Is it a safety concern? A bit of a safety concern is can you not explain that to him? You can, and I feel like he understands it, but you still have to be the bad guy in the sense of then just letting them.
SPEAKER_09So the other parents who are just Facebook parents and say, I don't care, just go and do Doom Scroll until you're blue in the face. I'm over here and I got lucky to watch. Right. You know what I mean? Do you want to be like that? Or would you rather have a sleep at night knowing you have a safe son? It's why the f do you care what sheep think when you're trying to be a lion?
SPEAKER_05Oh.
SPEAKER_00I wish you didn't do that. That was we took it a little left though.
SPEAKER_01If you get some time to collect your man.
Fresh Bread And Dad Chaos
SPEAKER_10The real dad podcast. I'm not touching that.
SPEAKER_12Welcome to the real dad podcast. I'm Dave and I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_11I'm Joey, and I'm sorry. I'm Mark and I'm exhausted. I'm Brian and I'm just sore. It's just the way it is. Uh let's dad, everyone. There we go. Hold on, shut up for a second. Have you smoked the fresh bread?
SPEAKER_09You've been looking at that for months. Can you guys smell that fresh bread?
SPEAKER_01Fresh what?
SPEAKER_09Fresh bread.
SPEAKER_01Bread? No. Smell that?
SPEAKER_09I did smell a fart, though. Yes. Yeah, there it is. So that's Maverick, my son. That's his new thing. When he farts, he gets, he says, if you guys smelt that fresh bread, to get us to sniff. And when you're like when you're like bread and you're like, but he does it when we're like in public. So it's not like we're at home, like, yo, no one's cooking bread. They also started saying sweet lifting when he's like sweet lifting. Sweet lift lifting.
SPEAKER_11It's like way cooler than what my kids are saying at home right now.
SPEAKER_09When he goes to get up, you know how you were like, oh, or like son of a, you know, whatever? He's like, sweet lifting. I love that. Sweet lifting top. And he looked he gets up and he grunts. He's like, sweet lifting. Too long.
SPEAKER_13Are we positive though?
SPEAKER_12Uh your um past father-in-law wears in nowhere.
SPEAKER_02It's like this is a mini hacksaw 100% through and through. He got all DNA from one side with a little sprinkle of your fuckery.
SPEAKER_09Dude, to the point he gets home from day care, and this is a hacksaw thing, if I've ever heard. Hacksaw, if you don't know, is my father-in-law. He passed away two weeks before we found out we were having Maverick. And Maverick says all the time, I met old man. That's what we used to call him. I met old man in heaven like before. Which is like throws Robin for a real look. Rob's my wife. So, um, anyways, he this man never wore a shirt. Hacksaw never wore a shirt, skinny man arms, man hands, like the like just beer belly. That's the only bit of like fat that he had on, which he didn't even, it wasn't it was like abs, but like bloated abs. You know what the deal is. My uncle had one of those. Yeah. And he had like a jerry curl mullet with a mustache, like look like a wow. Dude, he represents pictures. I can smell them. I can smell them. If NASCAR was a person, it was tarp soft. Okay. And and Mav to the like the same, he looks like a little baby Grinch. Like when he takes it off, he's got skinny, skinny, skinny, and this belly that's has like somehow has abs in it. It's weird. Amazing. And the second he gets home from daycare, he he takes off his shirt. He's like, and I'm not, I'm not a tarp soft kind of person around my house, and like no one in my famous, and we're just like, and he's just floating around, walking around in his underwear. Boom. And we're at dinner the other day. Like my house, my my uh like dining table is right next to the sliding door. It's a it's a it's a walkout basement, so the deck's up high. Yep. And he mavericks like, can I go for a nature pee? And I'm like, what the hell is a nature pee? Robin's like, watch this. Sure. And he walks outside and he pisses off of our deck into the thing along and goes like this. Like what you know how Dave does whenever he gets into nature? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Davey walking in the first tea box on a golf course.
SPEAKER_09Just like into it, and I'm like, this is a 60-year-old man living his best. And he's just carrying on the yeah, he's carrying on the legacy.
SPEAKER_11I don't know how we got there, but my kids have been walking around all night saying, take it like a man. Apparently they say that in the night of the museum. Uh Owen Wilson says it when the train's coming. He's like, just lie down and take it like a man. Now the kids are just saying that and I'm like, I'm like, I did not approve this message.
SPEAKER_00That's amazing.
SPEAKER_13I love it because it couldn't be like less Brian. So, like, if you're out in public and they say that I can just see Brian squirming being like, they didn't get it from me. We actually are very accepted.
SPEAKER_03Night of the museum, am I right? Got the clip loaded on his phone just to show people.
SPEAKER_11Yeah.
A Listener Message Changes Everything
SPEAKER_12I wanted to give a quick shout out before we get too deep and I forget. So I wanted to get my phone out to Dominic Campitelli. Yeah, you butchered it. No. Dominic Campitelli. You gotta say Campacino.
SPEAKER_09Campacino. Dominic.
SPEAKER_12Dominic, send me a voice memo on Instagram again with the pronunciation of your last name. Okay. Okay. Dominic reached out to us on Instagram, and it came at a very timely moment while we had been away from each other for a long time. We hadn't recorded um Joe had a chance. That's how long it's a dude.
SPEAKER_10It's like he's got eight inches of hair. It's so long, it just keeps growing. Robin every time she sees him, that's like literally like Joey has a ponytail?
SPEAKER_12I don't know. We don't know how long it's gonna go, but um, Dominic messaged us on Instagram, and I I don't know if we had been talking about it or something was just going on in life, and I flipped over to the Real Dad podcast Instagram just to see kind of what was going on. And he sent us just the sweetest message of finding our podcast, and it just like it was one of those moments that hit home where we haven't recorded a long time, but people have still been listening. Um, in our Brolaz world, we hired an admin and she's handling our info at Brolaz. It's an amazing construction company. We do renovations, custom homes, whatever you need in the house. We got you. Um, if you live in the Durham region. Um global, baby. We will travel, maybe. Um she's handling our Brolaz side, and that's where we would normally get from our Buzz Sprout telling us how many downloads we've had and stuff like that. So I had happened to like click into our Brolaws email because I had to find something that was in there from the past, and then saw the Buzz Sprout, and I saw that we still had like 500 downloads, and I was like, holy shit, like we haven't recorded in months. People are still listening. We get a like great shout out on Instagram of this guy who's having a baby, so they're expecting, and he went on trying to find parenting advice, yeah, stumbled upon our podcast, and said that it's like been making his days, like he's been working, listening to our podcast, absolutely loving it, feeling like he's one of the guys, and it was just that like reassurance of like you need to keep doing this, guys. We need to keep doing this. For the people, right?
SPEAKER_03That's it. The show's got legs, it's got legs, people love it.
Burnout Fears And A Weird Sign
SPEAKER_09Can I tell you like a really weird story? Please do. So I like I wasn't gonna say this. Okay. Yeah, I love that you're saying I was gonna quit the show. Okay. Wow. So I was like, didn't see that one coming out. Right?
SPEAKER_11Yeah, it's the first time we're all here in this. Yeah, this is good. I wasn't gonna say this until this moment.
SPEAKER_00Okay, say it out loud.
SPEAKER_11There's a safe place.
SPEAKER_09It's it's a lot to do it every week and to like for me to be away, and then it's like it turns into a thing, and then it's like it always I always have to leave right at bedtime, and it's like a witching hour, and it's like it's a lot. So I'm like, it was killing me because I'm like, shit, do I do want to do this, or do I not want to do this, or whatever? And then I went to an event, and I'm not allowed to say where the event was, but I had the opportunity to talk to a very resourceful person about potentially getting a TV show. Okay, and we had said, you know, there's a there's a there's a group of people here that are protesting in for me to for the opportunity. And this this individual looks at me and says, start a podcast. And I was like, I actually have a podcast about fatherhoods and like you know, breaking down those stereotypes, and like we kind of like just poke fun at each other. We're all great dudes, and it would be a great podcast to like put some money behind, and then she's like, talk to me in six months. Oh I'm like, okay. That was six months ago, and that was six months ago. And this week, I'm like trying to muster up the courage to tell you three that I don't think I can do it anymore. Right. But it's something that I love doing and I miss you guys wholeheartedly. So Robin was like, what are you gonna do? Right. And the last two days or three days or whatever, I've been over the weekend, I was building the stairs on my deck. Okay. So I'm I'm working by myself and I'm kind of doing the things that I used to do when I was working with you guys. And I'm not kidding you, this red dragonfly was following me around everywhere. To the point where I was like, oh, that's kind of cool. Because I don't really notice that thing. I've been fishing a lot lady, dragonflies eat the bugs, so I'm like, you're fucking good on you, but all the bugs.
SPEAKER_07Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_09So I'm like, I think, and then it's and then the next thing I go to like pick up something, it's red dragonfly. And I was like, that's weird. And then I go to pick up something else, red dragonfly. And I'm like, what the f and then to the point where I was like, I was super stressed, and like just I made like you know, whatever. Long story straight, last stringer, I'm going to like I'm going to screw in a deck board. I'm too close to the stringers, I'd boom, thing blows apart, and I'm like, I rage bait, I break the stringer, I rip the stringer right out of there. I was so mad. So I'm like breathing, staring at the sunset, sitting on like half these stairs that I just built. And then what happens? Red dragonfly lands on the thing. So I look it up and it's like spiritual awakening. You're like, you're you need to make this change and it needs to be something that's fulfilling and the thing. And I was just like, I'm not, I'm not gonna tell them that I had this, but I'm not gonna throw away the podcast either. And then when you say a message like that to say like people are still still there, like I do think that if I were to build a community, it would have to be something that I truly believe in is very authentic and is like it has the ability to make a positive change in people. And like social media and like the influencer world and all that other stuff is just so fake and so full of bullshit that like this and these conversations and you guys, it's just like I just think that's where my heart is, and that's where I want to like I want to put me going going forward.
SPEAKER_12Now, this might creep you out even further, but stop it. I got a tattoo of a red dragon to get you a mad. I would have I would have left, I would have left the room. That's awesome, man. Because Joey and I spent four hours or so driving to and from St. Jacob's for a home hardware project that we're working on together with you. Um I'm so excited for the whole like almost the whole drive we're talking about the podcast back and forth of like, how do we make this work? What do we do? Like, what do people want out of it? Like, you think of our business, you think of this, like, what do you really want to be doing 10, 15 years from now? It's like, if we could make this be the business, like be the work would be the ultimate dream. But it's that like fear of going all in on something, the fear of the time commitment. You can only give so much of yourself to everything. I sent you guys a clip of a guy talking about like burnout culture, even with you see Gary Vee and um Alex Ramosy, Diary VCO, Stephen Bertlett, like all these like amazing people that have grown this huge success out of what they do by putting just an insane amount of hours into anything. I think Alex Ramosy's in the office at like four o'clock in the morning, even though he's a multimillionaire, has no need to or reason to be there, it's just what he does, it's his drive. But you see these sample sizes of people that have succeeded. What you don't see is all the people who have burnt out, have been beat down, and not been able to get through that. And you get this false sense of success through those eyes because you're only seeing the ones that made it, you don't see all of the heartache that went through it, and it's hard. Like the irony of doing a dad podcast and not being able to do it because you're trying to be a good dad and be there for your family and do all the things that you need to be doing on the other side of things, it's so hard. But then at the same side, having these conversations is what's helping other dads who are still going through all of that.
SPEAKER_09And it helps us too. Like you a hundred percent. Like, I I never left the booth, yeah, and on the way home been like, fuck, I fucking should not have done that. I mean, you might have said I shouldn't have said that. There's at least once an episode of Ragnarok.
SPEAKER_08I probably shouldn't have said the old loose lips get me in trouble, you know what I mean? Did I see anything too you know cancel culture in there?
SPEAKER_12Yeah, but I think like we all genuinely care about the dad community. We care about every well, and the moms, whoever is listening to this, the people who are parenting, who have parented, who just want to listen for the entertainment. We're all still trying to figure out parenting. Yeah, we're all still trying to figure out how to be good dads, and we care so much about the the community that cares and that wants to figure it out with us, wants to go along for the ride, wants to be a part of the failures, the successes, and all the things in between, right? And it is, it's it's a hard journey to pair with parenting.
SPEAKER_09No, it's hard to monetize something that you care about because without trying to seem like you're like you're you're trying to sell people on that. You know what I'm saying? Like it's like you know, you see these things like dad's social and like all these things, and then you watch like thing, like there's no way that he is able, he like he puts his kids, then he's editing videos till every day until you know however o'clock in the morning, and then he's up, and then he's building and doing all those projects. And like, I'm sorry, but there's no way that that is sustainable, right? And like, yeah, and I'm sure Mason's a great person, but he's traveling all the time, he's doing all these things, and and that it persona to everyone else is he's such a good you know thing, but then I'm looking at it as like I guarantee you he'd rather be at home with his kids doing the stuff because that's what he that's what he started doing, right?
SPEAKER_12It's the thing that you started doing when it evolves into something else, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I kind of look at Dude Perfect and just be like, I just want like a massive warehouse that I can go hang out with my friends.
SPEAKER_06Dad Perfect.
SPEAKER_12But that's why we're here. I mean, how I don't know how long it has been, long enough for Joey's hair to grow that long, obviously. I can tell you, watch you ready to do this?
SPEAKER_09Well, no, but shut up for a second. Okay. We had the con this conversation, we birthed this idea in 2019. Yep. 2019. Yeah. So if you think about it, 2027 is in four months. 2019 was eight years ago.
SPEAKER_12Wow.
SPEAKER_09Eight years ago. It's pretty wild.
SPEAKER_12Well, yeah, and my son's going to high school this year. And yeah, that's crazy. When we started, he was a boy.
SPEAKER_09We've been saying we're gonna be more consistent.
SPEAKER_11Hey, we had literally the last time we recorded. We were reminded of this last time we saw our buddy Brent. I told Joey not to bring up the C-word in this episode and not drop it for we said we were gonna be more consistent, and it didn't matter who was gonna show up, we were gonna record no matter what, and we haven't recorded since.
SPEAKER_12And that's one thing I find interesting about that concept because like I think we all want this, we all want to put the time into it, but when one person isn't there, it genuinely feels like you yeah, like you we it the four of us is just such a fun dynamic that it feels good, right? Yeah, but we did put in a good solid year where we were pretty much weekly for an entire year. 2024 was a big year, which was a big push, and we did jump up to much more downloads and stuff like that. But I think it's just like the realistic honesty of parenting, like we're not always going to be able to do this, but we want to show up, um, we want to be there for the community, and we want to, I mean, be there for ourselves too, right? To be able to have the conversations and we kind of treat this as therapy in a sense with all of us. I know I need it.
The Teen Shift And Screen Battles
SPEAKER_12My son is turning 14, he's going to high school this year, and I've been having a lot of conversations this summer about the transition into teenagehood. Um, I met with a client who has a 12 and a 10-year-old and they're trying to get pregnant with a baby. And I was like, whoa, that seems ambitious. That's a choice. Um, and they're even doing like IVF to try and have this baby. Like they're pushing because IVF.
SPEAKER_11IVF, intro vitro fertilization. There it is. It's our smart guy that's a big thing. I knew Brian would know it.
SPEAKER_06You and I were just gonna keep going with random francophone.
SPEAKER_12So because the husband had a vasectomy, right? And I was like, okay, like this. I at first I was like, that's crazy. And then I had the moment of like, you know what? I get it. And I get it because right now I'm transitioning into a new phase of parenthood that I don't know. It's scary, I don't know if I'm doing things right, and it feels like there's a lot more on the line. Having a baby and going back to a baby again. I'm not saying this to downplay anybody's girl. Don't say it, don't say it.
SPEAKER_08I'm saying this as a father of three. Yeah, you're not gonna care about the fourth one. That going back to the baby stage would be easier.
SPEAKER_10Idiot.
SPEAKER_13Idiot. 40 years old, bro. Because you wanna have a baby right now because you know what to expect. You pull a bustle stand.
SPEAKER_11Didn't sleep until 10 o'clock in the morning.
SPEAKER_13Didn't say this was a good idea. I didn't say it was a good idea.
SPEAKER_12No, dogs are worse. Anyways, the kids want a dog, Joy doesn't want it. That's a whole nother side. That's not bad luck. I'm gonna talk about that's on a whole other episode.
SPEAKER_00I got you though. It's fear that it's easy.
SPEAKER_12It's the fear of the unknown versus the fear of the known, where I know how to parent a toddler. I feel like having gone through it three times, I am good with kids. I am good with little kids moving into this like hormone-changing stage and all of the video games and all of the potential social media and stuff that will go into it. Him going into high school, meeting a whole new range of people, what that high school experience is gonna be like. It is so unknown, and I feel so much like a fish out of water that it's like I need the podcast again because eight years ago, when my kid was a little boy, we worked through little boy things and how you do and how you raise. Now it's like we're entering teenagehood. I I need you guys to uh bounce ideas off of. I need to know like the balance of letting a kid have space to experience the world and make mistakes, but also not wanting them to continually fall into the same habits and stuff like that. Like video games is a huge one where if I were to leave him to his own devices, he would just game all day long. He literally did one day because we were all out with my wife and the girls, and he was home by himself, and he literally just didn't either full gaming day. So, for him specifically, he is not the best version of himself. So, today we even was a good example. Yesterday, they had a full day at a water park playing outside and Incredible day for him being active, having fun, interacting with people. Came home from that happiest mood he could possibly be in. Today I come home from work. Um, my daughter was in the TV room with him. All of a sudden I hear her screeching at the top of my of her lungs. My wife's got her noise canceling, headphones on, cooking dinner. So I go in to be like, what's going on? And he's like, I barely even touched her. She's like, he pushed me, he did this. And I was like, she was like crying, crying like it really hurt. So I lifted up her shirt to see, and there was like a red mark on her. I was like, dude, you can literally see what you've done. Like you hurt her. I know you don't think you did something, but you did. So then I get him to turn his game off. I'm like, you need to reset, like, you need to figure this out. Goes up to his room, give it some time. I go up to talk to him, sit down on his bed to give him a little chat, and he starts getting all ragey and like, oh come on, like I barely even. I'm like, the accountability thing for me is a big one where it's like, dude, you hurt her. Like, you need to accept that this is the case. I know you might not have meant to. So I'm like, all right, you need a break from screens. What have you eaten today? And he had just been like uh foraging, like just eating snack, not real food, just gaming. So he's in this, like, as a likely ADHD little boy brain who's been overstimulated with video games, then lashes out, then is in this like distraught mode. So I'm like, all right, I'm gonna take your phone right now. We need to have a screen break. We're not going on screens.
unknownWhat?
SPEAKER_12Like, like fuck, like I closed the door and he was pissed, like, just like I thought he was gonna destroy his room kind of thing. Walk downstairs with a phone, knock on wife's shoulder. Hey, can you take those noise canceling headphones off for a minute? Like, I need some backup here because I need to know like what's happening and that we're gonna be okay. Give it some time. He cools down. I went up and chatted with him, and he said he was playing the game, he was playing Fortnite, he just lost and died. And Abby was sitting there and he kind of like lashed out in a sense.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_12I'm like, so do you understand that like what the cause and effect of things are? Like you've been playing video games, you're overstimulated, you just lost, and you were angry, you didn't want your sister to be in the vicinity of you, so you tried to get her to move. She said, You're not the boss of me. So then you forced her to move, and it caused a big commotion. Right. So now that he's eaten dinner, we've had a logical conversation because his brain and his body has been able to kind of isolate, like uh regulate himself, and he understands it now. He ends up playing with Abby, they go outside, shoot basketball, and he's being like a little coach to her out there. Really, really cute. So, like the cause and effect, you can see it. And there's been times where he sees it. And we used this today as an example of like look at yesterday when you ate good, healthy meals, you had your activity, you were outdoors, you got to do all these things, and how did you feel then? Oh, I felt great. It was an awesome day. Now inside, you played video games, you ate like shit, and you're angry and frustrated and f like want to see the world burn for a moment, right? And it's like, can we see the differences here, right? And it's one of those things that we're working on with him, but it's hard to know as a parent how involved to be. Because if you do just completely back off, they will continue to just do the thing that's not necessarily good for them. They're not. I and I don't know if that's something that we didn't put in the work enough when they were younger to be able to, but I think it's also just still that adolescent brain that doesn't fully understand it. You want the dopamine, you want the thing that all your friends are doing because that's all they do.
SPEAKER_09Well, that's that's like I'm I do that and I'm 40. I'm chasing, I'm still chasing dopamine. Well, that's what I said to him. I said of course you're still gonna do it.
SPEAKER_12I'm figuring out this for myself at 39.
SPEAKER_13Like I'm trying to 39 for a couple more weeks, okay?
SPEAKER_0940.
SPEAKER_00He's holding on.
SPEAKER_09He's holding on there that's I've been like mid-30-ishes for a long time.
SPEAKER_13We're in our 30s and we're trying to figure it out.
SPEAKER_12Seven minutes. And I'm trying to help you figure this out. So I'm like, you hope that these little lessons are going to, and there have been days this summer where he has made the good choice and chosen to go out and do something or turn a screen off and go for a bike ride and have those little breaks. So you see little bits of it, but then it's so easy to just watch them fall back into gamer zone. And like, I get it. Like, I don't if you have a gaming day and that's what you want to do, then that's fine as long as that doesn't become everyday kind of thing.
SPEAKER_03Everything in moderation, right? That's what I like. We never like to reference experts and we don't talk about advice on here, and that's for a good reason. We don't think we have this figured out, but like that is a lot of the messages that I've seen around it. It's like there's nothing inherently evil or bad about screens and video games. They can be fine, it's moderation. That is your biggest thing because once it becomes an addiction to whatever the dopamine is that you're getting from whatever it is, that's when it's an addiction. Yeah, it doesn't matter what it is, if it is whatever cigarettes, drugs, alcohol, or screens, like it is an addiction, and that regardless, that's not good for a brain, and especially an adolescent brain, right?
SPEAKER_09I think you also need to give yourself some grace too, Dave, because even like when I was like, oh, playing devil's advocate, because where I see the world going, like people that are obsessed with video games and playing them and all that sort of like there's there's a potential career choice in that too, right? Like in that gaming industry is is evolving into something that didn't even exist when we were younger and it was looked at as a giant waste of time. Right. And that's when wholeheartedly when I was like, why is it bad? Because he could potentially, you know, be playing in stadiums and stuff like that. But for you to be able to have the awareness to be like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like he is a different person on the screen versus off the screen, that speaks volumes to the relationship that you have with your kids. So like you sitting here being like, I don't know, and I'm it's like we're all growing up together, yeah, yeah, and you being able to like have the time to actually know who your kids are, exactly to be able to be like no no no no, like you are different today than you are yesterday, and this is the common denominator. You're not one of those parents, and and I get it, we all do, but you're not what that's like go over there, go to your room, go to the thing, and it's like I call them Facebook parents, but like do you know what I mean? Like you're you're involved to kind of like know.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, there's I was gonna say something very similar. There's no like basic framework that works for all your kids, like each kid is very different. We've noticed with our oldest son that like if he starts the day on like with TV, then he's miserable the rest of the day, like he's gotta get outside right away, like and then he TV actually works well for him like later in the day when he's tired, or like to like regulate himself again when he comes back inside. Like, that's kind of what we've noticed anyway that works well for him, but like the others, it's it doesn't affect them the same way at this point, so you just kind of like pick it up as you go, like yeah, learn your kid, like you're saying.
SPEAKER_03100% are any watching Lucky? No, the cat? No, it's uh the girl from that's a movie's gambit, Apple TV. Yeah, yeah, great movie. This is also on Apple TV. Great movie. So Lucky, she's the actress from which one was it? Queen's Gambit? It's called Lucky.
SPEAKER_12No, you said there is another thing.
SPEAKER_03Oh, that's the animated film. Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_12Why are you looking at me like I like to learn about new things?
SPEAKER_03He's trying to pick different shows movies. No, he's being sneaky. He's been a little bit more than a lot of things.
SPEAKER_00Anyway, all that to say. That was a relevant. I forget about the ADHD sometimes. I'm sorry, guys. I should have just wanted to show my story.
SPEAKER_11Anyways, is it all for the show?
SPEAKER_03I'm talking about the TV show with the actress from Green Gambling.
SPEAKER_10It's got a clover. Currently happening. That one with the with and like the lucky penny. It's a great one. Is there a cat in your show? You know what? Is it a black cat?
SPEAKER_03It's from that. Sure, let's go with that. The movie you're talking about. The heist show. Yes, con artists.
SPEAKER_10Anyway, it's called the same movie as a cat. Because they like girls' cats are lucky. It's the same, it's the same.
SPEAKER_03The girl's name is Lucky, yes. Also, it's a series, not a show. Or sorry, a series, not a movie. Oh, and it's not anime. It's that happened in the most recent one. And the quote from it is if you're asking the question, you're probably fine.
SPEAKER_13Okay, say that again. No, no, no.
SPEAKER_07We need to chick it all over.
SPEAKER_03All right, very good. Anyway, I'll give you the scene because it was a good scene. Oh no. You wrote it. You don't have the scene.
SPEAKER_07I want to tell that story.
SPEAKER_12Oh, yeah. Yeah, we were talking about shotguns this morning. Okay, never mind.
SPEAKER_13I don't want to convince you. I want to convince you. This is we are unmedicated people.
SPEAKER_03In a while. Yeah, this is back to Joe. Anyway, Joe. He's talking about being a bad dad on how he wishes he was there for his daughter, but he missed his flight, so he couldn't be there. So she tells him that quote. If you're thinking about it, chances are you're fine. Then she tells her sob story about how she's not a good person, wishes she was a good person. He throws it back at her. You know what? Somebody smart once said, if you're thinking about it, chances are you're fine. So that was the quote that I've had in my head from you talking about it, Dave. And it is that thing that we talk about and why we do this. And trying to be a conscious good parent. If you're trying, you're doing it right. As long as you're not doing a few key things very wrong. But I think you should know about that.
SPEAKER_12It's hard because of what other parents let their kids get away with.
Being The Bad Guy At Bedtime
SPEAKER_12So you have to play, you feel like the story I'm telling myself is you are the bad parent. Like you have to be the mean parent. Where it's like, oh, so-and-so's mom lets them play till whenever they want. Oh, they've got a they've got a TV and video games in their room, so they never get told to leave it or turn it off. And you always have to be the bad guy, being like, All right, shut it off. And you also don't want your kid to not feel like a cool kid because he's like, Oh, sorry, I gotta turn it off. And they're like, Oh, why is it your bedtime? And then it gives them an opportunity to chirp them, and it's like, oh, it's like, no, we just want him to be a good person.
SPEAKER_03You just gotta give them good appropriate ammo to go back at those kids with. Yeah. Nah, my parents just want me to have a future. Suck it, Brendan.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, it's legit hard because of all the other things, like, oh, so and so has this app already. Oh, so and so has this. And it's like, well, yeah, actually, they're making it harder for kids under 16 to get onto social media. So maybe those people shouldn't have been on that. And it's like, it's hard when the choices you're making don't align with all of society. Yeah. So then your kid has to be the outlier. I remember growing up, and there were other kids because we were um going like in the church circle, there were other kids that weren't allowed to watch like The Simpsons, right? But my parents didn't care, and we could watch The Simpsons. I can remember people like, why wouldn't you get to watch that? Like, I can remember those things of like you when people weren't allowed to watch certain things that you were allowed to watch, and then you're like, Oh, well, why? Like, why is that? And now you feel like you're that parent, not letting them do the same things that other kids are doing. But it's like But why don't you let okay, wait, why don't you let can I say his name?
SPEAKER_09Yeah, like Ben. Oh, why don't you let Ben have those apps?
SPEAKER_12Because I know how detrimental they would be to him. Okay. Is it a safety concern? Bit of a safety concern as well.
SPEAKER_11Can you not explain that to him?
SPEAKER_12You can, and I feel like he understands it, but you still have to be the bad guy in the sense of then just letting them.
SPEAKER_09So the other parents who are just Facebook parents and say, I don't care, just go and do Doom Scroll until you're blue in the face. I'm over here and I got lucky to watch. Right. You know what I mean? The animated film. Do you want to be like that? Or would you rather have a sleep at night knowing you have a safe son? It's yeah. Why the fuck do you care what sheep think when you're trying to be a lion?
SPEAKER_00I wish you didn't do that.
SPEAKER_12Actually, it's a hard to the next one. There it is. I think it's hard because you see the disappointment in your kid. Yeah, but so then like you know what you're doing is the right thing. You know what you think is.
SPEAKER_09That sounds like some sort of cultural buying too. Oh, I love it. I love it.
SPEAKER_07I thought it was a hermosy thing.
SPEAKER_03Like whatever thing, I wear those every night. I saw one, I saw a picture of it. Yeah, they're the best. Anyway, uh our line in our house is different. Different homes have different rules. Exactly. That's what we have the kids with every time we do it every time. And yeah, because we've had that with our kids a bunch, because our my kids are goddamn monsters when they have too much screen time, and we're pretty upfront with them about we see that. We're like, I don't like parenting you when you're like that. And I'm sure you don't like it how I parent when I'm like that, because I know I get the same way. It's funny, we talked about that before we started here, Mark, of like the difference between a day on the tools and a day on the computer. It's like I feel that when I go through a full office day where I'm just on the computer, I feel like empty, exhausted, angry, all the things where I'm just I've just been sitting there staring at a screen. Where when I'm outside building or on a job site building, like not that you're not tired at the end of the day, but you have this sense of accomplishment energy, like clear head. Yeah, clear head is a good way to explain it. Where I don't get that when I'm on a screen all day. So I'm like, I understand how it affects me, and I understand how that can affect them that way too. Um, I'm fortunate with Coop because he just hasn't ever gravitated towards them. There's still plenty of time. He's only six, yeah. So he's six years old, and like he has a limit on screens himself. Like he'll sit down, he hates watching movies because they're too long. So he'll sit there for half an hour and then be like, all right, I gotta do something. Dad, what are we playing? What are we doing? Let's go. I can't be sitting there anymore. So I'm I'm thankful for that. And it's hard for me to lean into it sometimes because sometimes I want a lazy Saturday where we don't do anything. Yeah, and he gives me till about 9 a.m. And he's like, get him into fishing and organizing tackle boxes. Yeah, right. Where yeah, Murph can shut her down, she can sit in front of screens for as long as she is allowed to. Um, we had a screen day one of the weekends. Oh, well, this weekend actually. So Saturday, Meg and I got into our basement. Rainy day. We had to clean out a few rooms, reset a whole bunch of stuff, rainy day. So they were watching a lot of TV that day, and we had taken them out in the afternoon because, like, you know what, we gotta shut things down, get out of the house. We complained the whole way out. We got out there and we were driving the car, and like Murph's just chipping at coop and being a bit of a bitch. And then you call your daughter a bitch, she was being a bit of a bitch. There isn't it? There is a difference. Um, that's a great area. Not much. It's a gray area. And she's nine. I gotta flip three. She's nine years old. I said, like, what's going on with you? She's like, I just missed the couch.
SPEAKER_00I was like, dude, you're nine years old. You are not allowed to miss the couch.
SPEAKER_03I get it. Like, don't get me wrong. I'm allowed to get it though. I'm yeah, I put my time in. Yeah, 30-ishes is a time.
SPEAKER_09So I get that. It's it's different because uh and I feel for you, Dave, because the three of us are kind of in the same season, right? Where like our kids are the same ages, yeah, and you have children that are the same ages, but you also started fatherhood way before we did, like way before. Wow. So like you are the oldest one here, Lester. I just I I watched my brother go through that with my my nephew. He just graduated you know, school, um college, and it's like kind of crazy to see him with a mustache and like a deep, deep voice.
SPEAKER_12So it's I I do I kind of want to live vicariously through you to watch how this season kind of unfolds for you because that's what I keep telling the kids, even because like my daughter Aria, who's 10, we tell like I tell her, I'm like, babe, I'm just figuring this out. Yeah, like she's like, Well, why can't I stay up as late as Ben? Why does Ben get to do these things? It's like the kid comparing within your own family, and I'm like, I I don't know, man.
SPEAKER_13Like, I don't know why he's getting to do that. Like, we're just figuring it out to see what works.
SPEAKER_03Like, wonder too, sorry to get you off with the screens, especially. I feel like it's very easy to be unapologetically strict with a daughter, and like that's my kind of thought process because I've got a daughter son and my daughter's older. I think, anyways, and you guys can call me out on this and we'll clip it years from now. I think it'll be easier to be unapologetically strict because I'm protecting her. I am protecting you from what the internet can do to you, and it can feel like that is easier to justify with a daughter for myself.
SPEAKER_11I don't know. Have you seen Manosphere?
SPEAKER_03Oh, and I don't doubt, like I just mean like the psychology behind it. For me as a father.
SPEAKER_11Oh, don't don't even bother.
SPEAKER_12In Manosphere, it's like the Andrew Tate. It's red pilling, it's kind of like convincing boys into being more alpha. But it's like a manipulation type tactic and system, and it's kind of dark. And I think like red pills bad, blue pills good. Well depends on your side of the fence. I don't think that's the purple. I think it's the fact that you're being convinced to take a pill is a bad thing. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it definitely is different, but I think it's a kid by kid basis. Again, I don't I gender might have a bias in that, but um, my daughter is a lot more logical thinking. Um, where my son is not as logical thinking, I would say. Like she kind of you can have a conversation, she can sit still for the conversation, yeah, and she can understand what you're getting at, where he's a little bit more scatterbrained, and it's like you gotta use like analogies or speak to him through another channel in order to get through to him. Yeah, which I get because it's like talking to myself, but yeah, yeah. So I think like some kids just get things, like even Aria, she's she gets parameters, so it's like, okay, well, you let's test, like you can stay up till 10:30, okay? And then she's like 10:30 on the dot, lights out, putting herself in bed, kind of thing. Like she is the kind of kid that sticks to the script, whereas Ben would be like, all right, lights out, pretend, slip downstairs, grab the Doritos, but it's hard because it's like, yeah, if I didn't have kids, I'd probably be just gaming till midnight and eating Doritos, too.
SPEAKER_13Like when the family's away, that's literally what I do. So it's also hard to police the kid of like, yeah, I get it, man. Like, I get what you're doing here. I see where you're going with this.
SPEAKER_12There was one story, because with the kids getting older, um, but still having my youngest, she oh wait, are you as 11, not 10? I was wrong about that, anyways.
Missing The Little-Kid Phase
SPEAKER_12Um with Abby, we got to the point there was a big thunderstorm rolling in. I was sleeping. This was a little bit ago, and I wanted to remember the story to tell it on the podcast because it was a big moment for me. Big thunderstorm rolling through, and it wakes me up, thunder and lightning, and I'm just kind of laying in bed listening to thunder one more time, listening to the rain come down and listening to the thunder and lightning and the thunder. And I had that moment of like, oh shit, none of the kids came in. And like none of the kids were scared of the thunderstorm and came into the bed. And I was just laying there being like, is that it? Like, are they all right too old now? All grown up, and then all of a sudden I heard click, the door opened, and Abby walked in. I was like, Come here, you're safe. Daddy's got you. But I I had that snuggle with her in her bed, being like, This could potentially be the last. Like as exciting as it gets with the kids getting older and nerve-wracking, getting into new stages, but there there still are those little things that you miss that you don't get to do with them the same way.
SPEAKER_09So that's that's what Robin and I were like, Robin, I don't know, she probably found this on the internet, but she just said, like, because I I brought up on a third. Right. And she's like, I don't want another kid, I just want our kids to be younger again. Right. Right. That's what I mean. And it's it is We're in the phase now of like I'm really loving the season that we're in right now. Yeah. That I'm like, I can do this again. Right. I've had that thought too. Like, I could do this again. Like, we have two built-in mini best friends, and like we all just get along. Let's just fuck it up by now again. You know, that is the chaos. You never know what dynamic you're adding to your family. And it's it's just one of those things where it's like I I think about that every day. Right. Where it's like, you know what I mean? Like, I just I look at Maverick now, and he's like a full-blown 60-year-old man. But he's too fast.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, but he's still like, Dad, can you come wipe my butt?
SPEAKER_09But then we'll chirp me like five minutes later, and then he's like, you know, for being fat and stupid and slow, and I'm like, You needed me to wipe your butt like 30 minutes ago.
SPEAKER_10What the hell are you talking about?
SPEAKER_09But there's gonna be a time where like I would I'll give anything to just wipe his butt. You know what I mean? And that's that's like uh it's such a weird thing to think about.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I don't know. It's sad. That's why parenting is impossible to explain to non-parents. Yeah, it's like they literally become your everything, your source for the most anger, the most love and fear at any given moment. It's crazy. Like, yeah, it becomes a center hub for all of your emotions. It's a role for your kids.
SPEAKER_09Right before we this is how I know the red pills working, because right before we came in, I I, you know, I was hitting my dopamine and I saw a thing and it said, Remember before kids when I said I was tired? Ha ha. Yeah. And I don't think that ever goes away. And I remember having this conversation with my mother-in-law, and she was like, We were talking about like kids, and I was like, Oh, thing, and she's like, the exhaustion never ends because you worry about them constantly. Yeah, she's like, but at least now your worrying subsides because you're able to like check in on them. Yeah, you can see even when they're sleeping, you can just like you get that little worry, you walk in.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_09Me, I'll be up all night wondering, worrying and things and whatever, and you know, and like you are full-grown people, and you're just like not looking forward to that.
SPEAKER_11My sister-in-law Jin, they just took uh my niece Ella to like she's moving into this place, like near Humber College. Yeah, she's like she's so stressed, like she's just like, uh, I'm hoping she just like lives at home next summer. Because this place is like pretty sketch. So it's like she's just gonna be a nervous wreck all year. She's living in this house. Uh but yeah, that would be a totally different type of fear, like because like you said, you're the distance between you just makes it that much harder.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, and it's from it's it's very like that. I'm gonna like loose lips is coming in, okay. This is your warning, this is gonna this is gonna this is what foot tastes like, okay?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kids Aren’t Property, They’re People
SPEAKER_03Robin, turn it off.
SPEAKER_09But I just came to the realization that like my kids aren't my property. Like, I don't own my kids. Yeah, and my job isn't to isn't to treat them as such. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. In a way that I I'm used to like caring for things. Do you know what I'm saying? Like interesting. I own my truck. I take care of my truck like I own it. Yeah. But with my kids, they're my job isn't to take care of them, my job is to teach them how to care for themselves.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, you're essentially always trying to work yourself out of a job as a parent.
SPEAKER_09And that's that's I just had that like switch that went off for me, and I'm like, oh no. It's a weird whole, like, and this is where now Robin and I are kind of like, you know, on the thing because she's still very much like a bubble parent, where she's like, she comes to me and she's like, Can you go brush Aubur's teeth? And I was like, No, right. And she's like, What are you talking about? And I'm like, she's nine fucking years old. I'm not brushing her teeth. I'll check, and if there's still shit in there, I'll tell her to go back and brush, and I'll give her advice on how to brush it, but I'm not those days are gone. I'm not wiping her butt anymore. I'm not doing any of that stuff either. Like it's and that's where it's like it's it's hard to be like, how did we get here? kind of thing. And it goes by like bang, like just like that.
SPEAKER_03Well, I think that is the difficulty, is ah, that's such a good line of like it's you're meant to teach them how to take care of themselves. Because thinking about that now as an adult and a lot of the struggles that I have with parenting is that I wasn't taught how to take care of myself. Exactly. I have figured it out up until this point. I'm still alive and I feel like I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_09But don't you feel like you're still figuring it out though?
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. Every day. That's my point. Well, and I think that connects with like you said it there, Dave, where it's like, I'm the same way. My family isn't home. I eat like shit, I stay up way too late. I don't feel great because I don't take care of myself. Like I wasn't taught how to take care of myself. Exactly. Right. So then I don't necessarily know how to teach. You were left alone. Oh my god. That's what we're trying to revolve.
SPEAKER_09Dude, and if it wasn't for if it wasn't for Robin, it's Robin and I had this conversation. She was like, you know, whatever. She's like, I don't know what I would do without you. And I was like, you know what I would do? I would stay up till two o'clock in the morning every single thing. I would eat nothing but protein bars and peanut butter licked on a spoon. Peanut butter spoon. I would never drink water. Yeah. I would drink as much coffee and bubbly as I like probably counts as water. Kind of. But like, yeah. You good?
SPEAKER_03He's drinking water.
SPEAKER_09I know. But if it was like she's the one that's like, it's time for bed, bed routine, it's time to like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And when she's not around, it's like no rules, and I I I I'm left alone. And that's what I felt like the tools I was given.
SPEAKER_03Yep. And but that's there's the flip side of both too, because it's not also to say that you meant like you've used it for a bubble parent, where it's like that I think breeds the same thing because and I'm not at all calling out your wife or how she parents, because I don't actually know that much about it. But I think they're I guess the term that's more widely used is helicopter parent. That I think breeds the same issue because you don't end up necessarily teaching your kid how to take care of themselves, you just teach them how to not how to do what they're told, which I think can also breed the same issue. Because my parents were both, they were absent for a lot of it, so I was left to my own devices. But whenever they were involved, I was being told exactly what to do and being punished if I didn't do exactly what I was doing. Now that's strict. That's not how it comes. So that's kind of what I'm thinking, is more, I guess, the strict parent. Yeah, like, oh, I'm tell teaching my kid exactly what to do and not do it.
SPEAKER_09I had strict parenting, yeah, but I didn't have I didn't feel like I was cared for. I didn't feel like I was the boundaries that were in place were to keep me safe. Yeah. I felt like they were rules to like basically abide by or whatever, and I challenge those rules all the time. Whereas my kids have been helicopter parented, I'm not afraid to say it. But they are very much like my oldest, Aubrey, will be like, I don't want to climb a tree because I can get hurt.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_09Even though she sees all these other kids climbing the tree and having fun. Whereas Maverick's like, Mom, this is gonna piss mom off, but I'm climbing that tree. Yeah, Mom, don't watch. Right. And then he runs and he'll try and climb up the tree and can't do it and can't do it. And then he tries. So it's like he knows the limitation, and he knows that like the the concern is out of care, and it's not out of being stern or like those those.
SPEAKER_03Is the authoritarian parenting is that it's like a dictatorship.
SPEAKER_09I didn't realize like my sure my parents put up those boundaries, and there were there were parts in there that were like they were scared, but for me, the way that it was communicated was it was like it was a selfish version for them because they'd be like, you can't do that because then people are gonna think that I'm a bad parent and they're gonna come take me away, right? And I'm like, well, fuck, I don't want to be left alone. Right. So I don't want you to get taken away.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so I guess I'm gonna go.
SPEAKER_09And it's like that guilt kind of gaslighting thing, right? Whereas like the way that we try to communicate it with our kids is like you climb that tree, and you're you gotta deal with the consequences, you're gonna get hurt, and then they're like, okay, I want to climb the tree. And then now you're like, I don't want her to get hurt. Oh god, she made this bad decision, versus being like, he needs to learn that if he if he breaks an arm, he's gonna break an arm. Right. Like this is it's it's a wow, it's a thing.
SPEAKER_12This is really rocking my world, guys. There's a that's not sarcastic, that's like real.
SPEAKER_11A topic that keeps coming up in therapy for me is that like, whoa, therapy for you. We haven't seen each other in a long time.
SPEAKER_06I feel like he's talked about it in the podcast.
SPEAKER_11You would never read it in a little while. I've talked about it on the podcast. I've talked about it in the podcast. Even if you were prepared for that episode.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that could happen. Yeah, he genuinely didn't know.
Therapy, Adulting, And Old Wounds
SPEAKER_11Something that comes up for me is like, I don't feel like an adult. Yeah, it's like there's so many things in my life where I feel unprep completely unprepared for still. Right. It's like, I feel like we should have just had a course that we took and you can graduate it and be like, okay, I'm an adult. But there's so many things where I just feel yeah, completely unprepared for. Yeah. Like finances is a big one for me.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_11Um, but yeah, parenting is an another one where you're just like all of a sudden you're just having fun with your uh your girlfriend or your wife or whatever, and then you have this crazy responsibility that makes you kind of play at being an adult because you have to.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, like forced adulthood, yeah, parenting.
SPEAKER_11Just like happens so quickly, and then I find myself here lost and confused.
SPEAKER_12Yeah. And I find like I think that's even I think that might even be part of the stem of the worry about raising a teenager because I'm feeling the weight of all of that in that I didn't get that as well. And like I had the opposite of you, Mark, where I had very caring parents, but they weren't strict at all, which didn't mean that I got into more trouble or anything, but I also just wasn't I wasn't taught any of those boundaries or healthy habits or how like I often wish I had a stricter parent so that I could maybe be more disciplined with things, but because it was very like, oh no, you can if you want to do that, you can do that. If you don't want to, you don't have to, but that also created a lot of good habits in me as well, where I feel very freeing in that. But just I think I'm identifying with what you're saying about that feeling unprepared for adulthood, and I got married when I was 20, yeah, and nobody even challenged that to be like, I mean, you might still have a little growing up to do, like, we're not even fully developed until 25 or male brains.
SPEAKER_11In the church world, though, it's kind of encouraged.
SPEAKER_12It was, it was very much so, um, where it's just yeah, like realizing how like because I I feel the same way as you where I feel I don't feel like an adult where you still feel like you're that kid, and there's so many things in the world that you're trying to figure out, and it sometimes it feels like you're just hitting your head off of a wall, trying to figure it out. You read books, you listen to podcasts like the Real Dead Podcast, and you try to figure it out, and maybe you make some steps and some growth in certain directions, but then you still feel kind of just stuck because you never had that. And I think that's why maybe the coaching world has gotten so big where it's like a coach for almost everything. Yeah, but like we do almost need those life coaches to kind of help us, or a therapist to be able to help you learn and gain these skills to be able to grow up, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Well, and that's why we talk about I've said it before with therapy, and that's why I will always suggest it and encourage it because it is that it is it feels like you're finally talking to an adult who's or it's just like someone who is able to give you at least some insight into the thing. But they probably feel they probably feel honey not an adult. And a good therapist will let you in on that to the fact that guess what? That's every adult. Yeah, exactly. Like I've had that con this conversation with my therapist, and she'd be like, Oh, me neither. She's like, I don't think I have this figured out at all. And I was like, Well, you're kind of my lifeline here. What do you mean? She's like, This is being an adult. Being an adult is a but being no, that isn't how I want to say that. Basically admitting it is part of the solution. But it that's just the realization that nobody has it figured out. Even these, if you really got a good conversation with a let's use Elon Musk, if he was really true to himself, he doesn't have this figured out and probably still feels like a little kid who's trapped and doesn't know what he's doing either, even though he has billions of dollars. I don't know if narcissists would ever that's very good. Would not, but uh you think of like who you would picture, right? I think of it this way. I was thinking about this today a little bit, actually, with uh one of our clients, because he's a very successful lawyer, they have the life that is very much built. And I don't know why I was thinking of this today, but like he is just another guy. And like some of my interactions with him have now like thinking about that critically. I'm like, oh yeah, he probably feels the exact same way. He's got the family, he's got the kids, he's got the money, he's got the cod, he's got all it all figured out. But I've had some conversations with him where it's like, oh no, he still probably thinks he's not doing enough, and that he doesn't and probably isn't a good father, and all of these things that we struggle with and think with like success financially and in your career doesn't solve these questions, it doesn't make you feel like you've got life figured out and adulting figured out.
SPEAKER_11That's because there's always something else you can the comparison comparison game creeps in there.
SPEAKER_12And yeah, has your therapist had any good input into that?
SPEAKER_11Uh it's mostly in the listening stage. Okay. Yeah. I haven't been in a little while, so um, yeah, and I haven't talked about that specific subject a ton. Okay.
SPEAKER_13Okay, you just meet back in another week or so.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, I think I think the I mean we it's like the main meat and potatoes of this podcast is the communication. Yeah, and I just think our parents' generation was god-awful at communicating. And I think they didn't have it easy because their you know their parents were literally war-driven and you know coming from that, and they they just didn't want to be their parents. So a lot of them tried to be, you know, what they thought was quote unquote cool parents, whether they were overstimulated, but they didn't communicate any of that with us, whether they thought it was taboo or whatever. And it just left a generation of people that just felt like we were not enough, or we had to figure things out by ourselves, or we just were like, you know, kind of left alone. And I think that's the the thing that I want to give to my kids. It's what you said, is like just being vulnerable enough with them at four years old to be like, you know, when my son's like, why? I'm like, I don't know, bro. Can I have a yogurt? I don't know. I don't care. I don't care if you have a yogurt. Ask your mom. Does your mom care? Then she goes, Mom, can I have a yogurt? I don't care. Ask your dad. Well, he told me to come ask you. Mark, make a decision. I'm like, oh no. You know what I'm saying? Why? Why? Because I'm annoyed. Yeah. Like, that's the why. You know what I'm saying? But it's just like, it is one of those things where sometimes that's what it is. And I like, I want to show my kids that like I'm like, I'm not biblical here, or like I'm not, this isn't law. You know what I'm saying? Sometimes you're gonna have three yogurts. I'm not gonna, you're gonna catch me on a good pet good day. Yeah, sometimes you're gonna have ask me for a candy bar and I'm gonna say, eat a fruit. Yeah, and then sometimes I'm just out of the blue, I'm gonna be like, Who wants ice cream? Yeah, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02And it's just like Yeah, exactly. Like that must throw our kids for an absolutely blue yesterday. Two scoops of picture of my order.
SPEAKER_03Corathanai doesn't mess around. It's a ton of ice cream.
SPEAKER_12But often, like, how much our parents didn't know? Yeah, because like thinking about this and processing it while you're talking, it's like I didn't know much about finances and my parents didn't teach me, but then they were also never taught, and they had never figured it out. So at some point, where does that loop end or stop? Or are you the generation that figures out the how to communicate better to be able to teach your kids that or the emotional?
SPEAKER_03They can just ask AI and it'll actually know the answer.
SPEAKER_12There was a really good Ted Lasso clip um when his mom came to visit him and she came like completely unannounced. It's Ted Lasso, is that like stuffed bear?
SPEAKER_03Have you not watched Ted Lasso? Oh god, you need to watch Mark Wahlberg.
SPEAKER_12They're just bringing out back new C Jason's Sudeikis.
SPEAKER_03It's such a great show.
SPEAKER_12Very good.
SPEAKER_11It'll make you cry.
SPEAKER_12Um they talk about he there's a scene with him and his mom, and he says, like, thank you for always caring for me and putting my food on my table, but fuck you for not working on yourself when dad died. He's like, Thank you for always making sure I had a shirt on my back and food in my stomach, but fuck you for not doing such and such. And it's like two things can coexist where your parents can love you, do the best that they could, but also have not equipped you properly for adulthood or whatever, right? Like we are going to fail our kids in some way, shape, or form too. But we that doesn't mean you don't still care for them. There is this pull and push in both things where it's the paradox of both of those things can exist um in each other. You don't have to excuse your parent for not doing something for you because they were still just like a nice person. It's like, no, like it still sucks that they didn't do that. It still sucks that they didn't show up for your recital or whatever that was, right? Um even though they were working really hard and did something like keeping the house and the lights on.
SPEAKER_09I don't know.
When Parents Don’t Prepare You
SPEAKER_09Is it's hard because I'm or I'm at the stage where like my my dad is day-to-day, essentially. And I I have such a hard time buying into and I'm just because like I'm full of angry right or anger right now because he he has cancer, and this whole like he's been fighting this fight for four years, and this whole time he's like, I have a will, I have everything set up, but your brother's the executor. Well, now it's time, right? There's no will, nobody knows the passwords, nobody does like why the fuck would you put us all in this situation? And now it's like he he's so uh delusional that he can't, he just gets and he doesn't even remember that he has cancer. So now when we're like, hey, can we get the passwords for your banking? He's like, What the fuck do you want my banking passwords for? Right. And it's like fuck you for putting us in this situation where you knew that this was gonna happen and you didn't do a dick all to prepare for it because you were scared. So now you're gonna leave who knows what with who and where and what, and it all could have been solved with a little bit of communication, right? And and that's where I'm like I don't know, maybe I am in those those situations, but like it just I just there's something about that boomer generation that just irks me to my core that I'm like you you you don't know everything, you don't know everything, and it's like even now when it's like like parents and stuff that like oh just wait till they're a teenager. I'm like you don't know fuck what it was like for me as a teenager because you weren't there, yeah.
SPEAKER_12They had to put a commercial out reminding you that you had kids to check on them, and honestly, like it is like it is hard to not be that, and as the kids get older and need you less, I definitely could see. The appeal to being like a garage dad, like or like the shop dad, where it's like, oh, dad's just working in the shop. Like, I could tinker the shit out of a lot of things. Like, I could pull up like new hobbies, I could get a lathe and just start fucking lathing random things. And I could have a million and one hobbies that I'm avoiding the kids to do. Like it my personality could do those things. And as the kids need you less, you still need to be able to be around and be supportive and be there for them. And you almost have to be the one pushing to do the thing. Where right now Cooper's like, Joey, Dad, let's go play hockey. Like, dad, let's do this. Dad, let's do this.
SPEAKER_03Your parenting gets thrust upon you when it happens. Where now it's and then kids come, come, like, and then you get their sense of relief. It's like, yeah. All right, they're no longer coming. You get to miss it, right? And that's what you touched on there. It's like you get to miss it a little bit, where now you're gonna enter into that phase where like you have to intentionally be a parent.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_03You have to choose, okay, I'm gonna go and check on my kid. Where it's like that's where I saw for my parents when I walked through a lot of therapy with them having eight kids, they were got to that stage, obviously, with my older siblings, where like when I was going through when I was six, like coop, math is hard sometimes. Um, my oldest sister was 20. So then she's already well beyond not needing my parents. So what I consider and think happened, especially for my dad, where it's like they he got to that stage, but now I got treated as if I was one of those kids. Yeah, where it's like now I can be hands-off, where like I and I was very good at being a kid that could be hands off of. Um I got it, I gotcha. It was totally cool thing to say. It was landed, but none of that boomer generation was very good at acting like they did have it figured out and that they were adults. They still do, exactly.
SPEAKER_12I mean, we can too.
SPEAKER_03We do, but I think the difference what we're doing, what we chatted about, is we're not doing that with our kids. We're not telling them I'm the adult, I have this figured out, and that's why you're gonna do that. Sometimes, sometimes. Sometimes when they're just being kids, when they're just like, no, you can't fucking put a blindfold on and walk out into the highway. Why? Because I'm the adult. Yes, there are points of point. But I think there are a lot of the times where we are being more open, more vulnerable, and admitting to them we don't know the answer, but this is all I have for you right now. We never would have heard that from our parents. Of uh, I don't know why, but that's all I can give you, right? So I think that's where a lot of frustration comes from. There's a road ahead of you, Mark, and I want you so badly to find someone that you can just chat to about this stuff. I'm not gonna pressure you to start doing therapy. I've been walking through this now for months now with my dad passing. Yeah. I think it was after the last time we recorded. So I haven't talked about that on here yet. We'll get into that another episode because that's another discussion. That doesn't go away, and that only builds on itself in my experience of that anger. And there's part of that where my therapist had encouraged me quite a bit in the last because I've been doing it now for a number of years, to go and have those discussions with him when he was still around. I excused it with the fact that I did have a talk with a little talk with him, and then he had gotten to the point where his dementia was starting to ramp up. So I'm like, all right, it's kind of pointless to have now. I can see where there could have still been value in me having a conversation with him about that. If nothing else, I think what it does is it breaks, gives them the chance to break down that wall that they put up to say I'm the adult, and that's why. It gives them an opportunity, and that's what I did, get the chance to have that conversation with my mom and have her kind of open up and be a little bit more vulnerable in that way to say, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I screwed that up. I didn't know what I was doing. And just in the fact of hearing her say that and the fact that you can have those conversations and hear those words starts to break down that facade of they're my parent, they have this all figured out. They never did. And they never would have because they were us. They were a 40-year-old kid who were trying to figure it out on their own, probably even more so than we are, because they didn't have the tools that we have, and they didn't have parents who at least pretended to care more often than not.
SPEAKER_11It allows you to reframe it in your brain because you would be thinking like the story you would be telling yourself as a child is that they are doing this to me. Like this is intentional when it really wasn't. But they necessarily, like sometimes it is, but maybe not in your case.
SPEAKER_03And that isn't to excuse it. Yeah, excusing the behavior, excusing the way that they parent it. The way they parented sucked in more often than not. So you're not saying that was okay. The fact is you're saying that wasn't okay, but I can accept it because of now understanding who they are more. Yeah, I think that's a good explanation for therapy. It isn't fixing anything, it isn't going to give you advice to fix a scenario or change the way you see it. It is changing sometimes the story you're telling yourself because that's something you've been telling yourself since you were four, five, six, seven years old. Yeah. Because of whatever trauma you went through. So you've been telling yourself that same story your entire life. So having someone to be able to be like, you're telling me this about this relationship that you have now, but I also know this about you from when you were a kid. Can you see how those two things are connected? It's like, oh fuck. Yes, I do. And then you start to realize why you tell yourself the stories that you do about how somebody else treats you and how you can walk through a certain relationship and have a certain dynamic always play out the same way. And then you're like, oh, that has a correlation to this. Now I can make sense of that. Now I can recognize it right away and put things in place as an adult to have conversations about it. And that's a lot of therapy. It ain't easy, it's a ton of work, right? And that's what we're talking about with parenting and being a good parent. Being a good parent is a lot of work. Working on yourself is a lot of work. That's a great quote of like, thank you for doing all these things for me, mom. Fuck you for not working on yourself. And that's why we see so much value in this podcast. I think that's why we want to put the work in on ourselves. But it is it's work, and it's more work than work.
SPEAKER_09I would love to just go build for it. It is interesting to because I'm not the best, I'm not a good friend, and I'm not a good like seeker. I'm very caring, I'm very loyal, and I'm very open and supportive of having conversations with the people that I care about, but I don't if you ever text me, I'm terrible at like that form of like communication and checking in. Do you know what I mean? Like, I don't initiate things. The the the thought of like like Robin, for example, will be like, I gotta call my parents every day. Right, right. She has to call her parents. That thought doesn't even click into my head when I'm like driving and I'm like, who can I call right now to be productive? Right. Mom and dad aren't at the top of the list. Yeah. Or it's not even like I'm not a good like, I don't call you guys to be like, I just wanted to hear your voice. It's always, you know what I'm saying? So it's like I'm fearful of when the kids aren't seeking my attention if I'm engineered in a way for them to feel my thing, because I'm afraid.
SPEAKER_12And that's where it'd be an interesting thing for you to be able to walk through that journey because you might not feel like you're worthy of being heard, even.
SPEAKER_09And that's my dad has explained that to me.
SPEAKER_12Because my reach out to somebody because yeah, if you've been shut down in the past as a kid or whatever those things might be.
SPEAKER_09But my dad has always been the same way. If ever I needed him, if ever anytime the request is there, he drops and he's there. But anytime it's like you're never there when I need you to whatever, it's like he's like, Well, I didn't want to bother you.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_09And that's where I'm like, fuck, I can totally. That's why when we had that conversation when he was in the hospital, I'm like, I forgive you for everything because that's who I am as to my core. And I I resonate with that, but like I need to know, like, I like we have this little window here, let's make a thing and like get to know your grandkids and whatever, and whether or not he's sick and he can't do it now, or thing, but it's just it's right back to like what it was before, where it's just like I just think that's who he was, like, that's who he was as a person. Where like maybe he wasn't given that or whatever growing up, but like for him, it's not there, and when my kids no longer like need me or were not part of the day-to-day, are you gonna think yeah, uh, you know what what happens there? Yeah, and I'm hoping I'm hoping and praying that fear is enough for me to be like, I want to know how their day went, I want to know how the thing is, and I want to be the one that reaches out.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_09Because even like Robin's stepdad, he's like that. He doesn't, he never calls and he never does, he never does the initiation, but he he receives those calls from his kids every single day.
SPEAKER_03And that's where it like it touches on what Dave touched on with getting uh teenage kids and like being intentional around it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
Solitude, Loneliness, And Community
SPEAKER_03If you want that, you are going to be the one to have to do it. Yeah, I think there's a lot there of like you because I can say that I relate to that, like you got very good at being okay being alone. So then you're not going to be the one to initiate and reach out because you think that's imposing on the other person. You don't think that person would want to hear from you. You don't think about the fact that I'm not sure what you're doing.
SPEAKER_09It's it's sorry to interrupt Joy, but it's not even it's not even that I I don't because it's that you just don't. No, it's that I'm finally alone. Yeah, leave me the fuck alone. And I like it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_09I like being alone, and I like, I like, I love when everyone's asleep and it's just me. And I can I'm not necessarily like doom strolling because I'm on like a I have ADHD and I'm like a chronic start something and not finish it. But like this is the thing is I will wholeheartedly lay awake at night when everyone's asleep and I'll start a new brand. I'll make a logo for my kid, I'll I'll order them stickers for their YouTube channel, I'll do all these things for them. But then I'm not like I'm not actively seeing, I mean they're four and six, so they still like definitely need me, but I I crave that loneliness, if you know what I'm saying. Your daughter's a lot older than six, but she's nine. But like I'm I'm so used to the being alone and like coming up with ways to like cure that that like I now that I don't have it because I'm part of a loving family, and it's a thing, but like for me, it's like I still look for those those moments of of being alone. And even in the truck, I won't I'll drive no music, no nothing. And I just like I just love the solitude, yep.
SPEAKER_03Right, you know, I think some of that is there's probably a lot in there, and a therapist could hear that statement and probably pick it apart a lot better than I was. It's because that's the what that's the lens that I view a lot of things through because I've had a lot of these because I've had a lot of those discussions with my therapist because I've literally had that chat, because I'm the same way. If I'm given a chance to be alone, then I feel like I'm in my happy place. Yeah, so that made me think that I enjoyed being alone, but my biggest fear is being alone, yes, and that's a weird thing to try to sort out, but it it so nothing has been more factual than that statement. The thing that you love isn't loneliness because nobody loves loneliness. That's literally the thing that everybody in the world is most afraid of.
SPEAKER_09And I know that if I were alone, we talked about it earlier, I would be a fat diabetic with bed sores, and I would never see the sunlight.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and I'd like there's a lot that goes into that. I think it's well as a kid, it's being taught that you are when you require attention, you are becoming a burden. So that starts to add little fuel to that fire to say that you go somewhere. So for me, having my younger brother having a disability from a young age, he was a lot. So then I I think formed in my lizard brain brain when I would go to my mom with an issue. Now it I'm automatically adding to her burdens because she's already dealing with my younger brother and eight other fucking kids. Uh so then I built started to build the framework in my head that you're better off to not be a burden on anyone else and learn how to deal with things on your own. So then that starts to become your happy place out of necessity. Because when you're a kid, you need other people. You need that attend like we all experience that with our kids. They need us. So then when you don't have it, now you think, okay, I'm gonna have to figure out how to be happy in this place. So then that's when that loneliness section section becomes that dynamic of this is my happy place, but this is also the last place that I want to be. But then as an adult, you can start to covet that loneliness because you think now I have people having for my attention and pulling me in all these different directions, and I need to do this, and I need to figure out financing, and I need to figure out how to do life as an adult, and now I can take a break, and now I can have these moments at the middle of the night lying in my bed where I finally am alone and I'm in my happy place. But it's not actually your happy place, it's what can drive you into depression. Like I'm someone who's sought after a lot of solitude over these past this year, and this is the year that I've experienced depression in its most in my life that I ever have because I've leaned towards not seeing people and I've leaned towards isolating myself, and that's what breeds depression is isolation, and that's not a place where anybody wants to be. So it is this in it's a weird thing to walk through to have your happy place be the last place that you want to be, because it is next to the basically.
SPEAKER_12What I'm hearing is that we need to record more often than I also need a little peace and quiet before you say that.
SPEAKER_09Shut up for a second. Um that's pretty cool, right?
SPEAKER_11There's it's not a bad thing to want a little peace and quiet. That's all I'm saying. No, no, no. Absolutely, yeah.
SPEAKER_09But also, like, I was struggling. I struggle to pay attention to anything anybody says if I have something in my head that I wanted to say. I should not have said fat and diabetic. That is very offensive, and I I have guilt, I feel guilt. So I'm working on being more honest. And I was going for a punchline there that is like I crossed a line, so I apologize. I wasn't trying to throw that out there, not to think, but all of that what you said was beautiful, and and I relate to it a lot.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I don't yeah, that wasn't to say I had an issue there. Sorry, I wasn't blaming people who wanted to be have a moment of silence, there's nothing wrong with that. No, I'd completely creating that as your happy place.
SPEAKER_11But I like being a lot by myself, yeah. Like I'm the same way, it's it happens so rarely, yeah.
SPEAKER_09But at this stage, but is uh and all I'm trying to say is there's gonna there's coming a time where our kids will start to not need us, and we're gonna have tons of tinkering time.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, well, and that's why I think the other aspect to all of this podcast about parenting, but then you have being a husband and fostering that relationship with your wife over those years is also so important. Yeah, but your wife can't be your and ever. No, but you have to be able to get along when you get older. There's so many people that I know in that are older in life that like because you're a dinosaur, they're stuck they're still like they're home. Like it's like I I'm sick and tired of them being home. Like, go back to work, like don't retire, don't do the like I can't deal with you five days a week, like those types of conversations.
SPEAKER_09But again, I think those people, because I I've experienced that as well. I think those people had a poor relationship for 30 years, right? But they were distracted by work and extracurriculars that they just kind of put up with it, and now they're at a stage in their life where it's like, am I gonna spend the rest of my life alone or am I just gonna put up with this lazy asshole? Yeah, and and that's what I so that's why getting like the boomers just don't talk, they don't communicate, it's like they're allergic to it, and I don't understand.
SPEAKER_12I think there's a lot of people our age that still don't talk too. Yeah, and I think that there's a lot of households and marriages where like kids change the dynamic of a relationship a lot and can put huge strains on you. And if you're trying to figure out all of this and how to adult and how to be a parent, how to be a husband on your own. And it can just pull people and families and stuff apart. You can very easily lose yourself um in parenting and forget about kind of who you are as a person, what you like, and how to be able to have those relationships.
Commitment To Show Up Again
SPEAKER_12And I think I think the biggest thing is just I know we talked about loneliness, and yes, you can be alone, but also just the value of community and the value of just being willing to share your story. I think like we we're all trying to figure this out, and nobody has the answer. Certain people will have answers for you or will have keys for you that can help you along the way, but you have to put yourself out there into a community to be able to throw out those ideas and suggestions and hopefully get some feedback from people that can help you and can kind of keep you moving in the right direction.
SPEAKER_09That was beautiful, and you know what? I'm gonna say, I mean, I'm gonna say this wholeheartedly. Okay, okay, say it out loud. Thank you, Dave, for being the little quarterback and making this night happen because you were taking no for an answer, and it was getting annoying, and I'm very tired, but I will be committed to it. So thank you, but also fuck you for letting us go that long without doing things can be true. I love you guys, and I'm looking forward to being more whoa. Can you guys smell that fresh bread?
SPEAKER_01Fresh what?
SPEAKER_09Fresh bread.
SPEAKER_01Bread?
SPEAKER_09Can you smell that?
SPEAKER_03I do smell the fur, though.