The Real Dad Podcast
Each week, these four fathers cover a wide range of "Dad" related topics, from the joys of watching your child grow up to the challenges of balancing work and family life. With their unique blend of humor and authenticity, Dave, Joey, Brian, and Mark provide a refreshing perspective on what it means to be a dad in today's world.
Tune in for the laughs, stay for the heartfelt conversations about the struggles and triumphs of parenting. Whether you're a seasoned dad or a soon-to-be father, "The Real Dad Podcast" is the perfect place to connect with other dads and get the support you need.
Join us on this journey of fatherhood, and subscribe to "The Real Dad Podcast" today!
The Real Dad Podcast
Solo Dad Moments
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The hardest part of parenting is how quickly the “problem” changes shape. One minute you’re alone with a newborn who will not take the bottle, you’re trying every trick you can think of, and your confidence is hanging by a thread. The next minute you’re staring down a dinner table battle with an eight-year-old and a thirteen-year-old and wondering why a slightly chewy piece of chicken can flip your nervous system into full rage. We go there, honestly, because it’s real life for a lot of dads.
We talk about what to do with that anger once it’s out. Not the motivational stuff, the practical stuff: noticing the trigger, reflecting on what it’s actually connected to, and dropping the shame spiral that makes everything worse. We get into emotional regulation, why physical activity can be essential, and why therapy can give you tools that work the next time the same situation repeats. We also dig into boundaries and expectations with family, including the complicated reality of “parenting your parents” and deciding how much time and energy you can afford to spend.
From there, we shift into repair and connection. How do you come back after you’ve yelled? What do you say when your kid melts down and starts calling themselves the worst? How do you teach truth and accountability without shaming them? And as our kids edge toward puberty and the teenage years, we’re asking for resources from dads who’ve been through it and figured out how to stay present when your kids need you differently.
If you’ve ever felt like you were “past this stage” and then got humbled at the dinner table, you’ll feel seen here. Subscribe, share this with a dad who needs it, and leave a review with the best tool that helps you reset when parenting gets intense.
Staying Home Alone With Baby
SPEAKER_04Are you guys ever nervous to stay home alone with your kid when they were young, like a baby or younger ages, or were you always comfortable with it?
SPEAKER_05I was always comfortable with it. I was like, what's the worst that could happen? Right. I I just don't stress about those things.
SPEAKER_00We'll figure it out. I remember the first time that Meg went out for an evening. We had done bottles, they were ready to rock, but Murph just would not take the bottle. And I remember just getting so frustrated. Where it's like, I'm doing all the things. She's taken bottles before because we had like practice with her or something that we wanted her to be able to do. So then Meg would often like supplement and then do uh extra pumping so that we'd always have some available. But yeah, she wouldn't take it. Got to the point where I was using a syringe. I had the idea where I'm like, we had those medicine syringes, so I'm like sucking it up in the syringe, squirting it in her mouth. I'm like, I'm getting food into this kid one way or another.
Hosts Introduce And Update On Mark
SPEAKER_06If you got some time to relax your mind, come out with this.
SPEAKER_04The Real Dad Podcast. Welcome to the Real Dad Podcast. I'm Dave. I'm Joey. And I'm Brian.
SPEAKER_05Let's dad, everyone.
SPEAKER_04Let's dad indeed. We are Merkless again today. Um, but I was telling the boys before we clicked record that I have heard his voice.
SPEAKER_06Yep.
SPEAKER_04We talked today. He doesn't do alive. He is alive and well. Well, he is alive. Yep. Um, is very much in survival mode. He is filming a second season of a TV show. He is doing that now as a dad. And that was one of the things that I'll bring it up for him because he's not here to be able to bring up. But he had said, like, one of the things he's realizing, the difference of when he had done this before, is he had only had Aubrey when he did them like back with Scott McGilvery. Right. And then he was more like project managing the show, even.
SPEAKER_03Yep.
SPEAKER_04Um so his responsibilities were a little less then. And now having two kids, um, a wife who's working as well and managing trying to work on this TV show.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_04And like he struggles with the persona of people seeing it as all of the sunshine and rainbows. Because somebody who watches a TV show, they just see the good stuff, right? Like they don't see everything behind the back or behind the scenes that the struggles and the pain that somebody goes through to make ends meet with it.
SPEAKER_00I think there's even just the assumptions. Like you're on TV, so you've made it and you're getting lots of money and all of this. It's like, yeah, it's not always the case.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, but he puts so much of himself into everything he does, too. Mark isn't a guy who can half ass something. He worked for us for a while. You if you've seen his uh projects that he builds, he's not afraid to scrap something halfway and start over again because when he dives into something, he gives it his all.
SPEAKER_06Yep.
SPEAKER_04So he's trying so hard to give his all here and please everybody and then still keep his family happy in the meantime. So, Mark, if you end up listening to this, we love you, buddy, and and we're rooting for you. And yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I think the audience has come to learn by now, too. It's not always a bad thing when Mark's missing, because he's just out there collecting stories for us. Oh, yes, literally all the stories. The comeback show is right around the corner. That's it. Yeah, it's always a bit of a shame because every once in a while and the audience doesn't even know this. Although I guess sometimes we share it with them. Like we'll have a get together and then we don't even record because Mark just needs to go full vent mode. Yes. He doesn't want it to be heard, and we just get the pleasure of getting the unload for all the stories, but we'll make sure uh for this next one we hit record for sure. It was good.
SPEAKER_04We had like we had a very long phone conversation. Nice, nice. Um, a little bit about work that we're hoping to do together, and then about personal life. Um, but there was like a moment while we were talking where he had like a bit of an aha moment, and he was like, Oh, there you go. You just got to witness Mark's brain learning something on the fly, and like shares what he kind of worked through as we were talking, and it just made me realize like one, how much I know he needs this and like loves this is just like the ability to get together and chat. Yeah, because I find like we are always processing so much of our own thoughts and dealing with everything that's going on around us, but when you just get to have a conversation and gain some perspective from somebody else, some insight from somebody else, it really can give you that little like moment. And I know he gets those and it fills him up when we get these conversations. So just having that phone call conversation today and chatting, and it felt like our own little mini podcast. Like I should have recorded it, but also it's a good thing I didn't record it.
SPEAKER_00I feel like that's what people get from the podcast too, and that's what we've always noticed, even just from the comments that we get from people who listen to the podcast. Like it they feel like they're a part of this conversation, yeah. And that's what it allows people to do is like hear other people's perspective who are going through something very similar, and maybe one of us ends up sharing something that can give them that aha moment of like, oh yeah, that's probably why I've been feeling that way. Yeah. And it's like it is that, and I think that's what we've always wanted it to be. It's like come have a laugh for one, because we love to laugh and just have a good time with each other, but at the same time, it's like also sharing the struggle and realize you're not alone in it. And yeah, maybe you'll pick up on something that'll teach you something about yourself or your partner or your kids or something, right? Because that's what we get out of it. We get out of here, we chat with each other so that we can commiserate together.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it is nice sometimes though when we get together and it's like let's just talk and stuff. Yeah. We were at a show this week, uh, concert, um, and the guy was talking about uh his uh co collaboration with other writers. Okay. He's like they said the problem is sometimes you become too close of a friend with the right the other writer, and then when you get together, the last thing you want to do is create music together. It's like we're just too we just want to talk. And he's like, it gets to the point where you're such good friends that it's kind of weird to make a song, like an emotional song about something.
SPEAKER_04What are we doing here? He's talking about one uh writer who's like fairly well known that like people would like give their right arm to get a chance to write with her, and he would just like sit down and ask her questions and want to talk about parenting and stuff.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, exactly. That's when we were we should have said, check out the real dad pod. That was your moment for a plug, boy. I know.
SPEAKER_01What are we doing?
Front Row Movie Night Chaos
SPEAKER_00So we uh I got to experience a uh a front row movie for the first time, I think since I was a kid. By choice? By not by choice. Okay, it's never by choice. It's never by choice. Uh took the kids to a movie. Uh shout out the Michael McDougal team, real estate agent here, local. Um, but he throws on community events, so they were watching the uh Super Mario Galaxy movie that it was so they put that on. Um for some reason my brain just didn't wire properly when it was a I forget what time, so called 10:15 start time. And I remembered afterwards from last year showing up a half an hour early, so you can make sure you're there early and you get seats. This time we rolled up at about 1012. Um, and I walked in, I'm like, the lobby is empty, and I was like, Oh, right, that means everybody's already in the theaters. I'm like, well, whatever, it is what it is now. So me and my brother Josh, we went in, he brought his two kids and get the snacks. It actually was quite nice because we didn't have to wait the long lines. There was no rush. It's like, all right, we're just taking our time now. But all three theaters just stacked to the guilds. We're like, all right, whatever. So we found the biggest theater, and sure enough, front row had seven seats for all of us to sit in. We're like, let's just commit to it. The kids were pumped, they're like, oh, we get to sit in the front. That's a fun new experience. All right, sure.
SPEAKER_01And I'm like, it can't be that bad. And you sit and you're like, oh yeah, no, it is right there. Cracking too many right down, not in 3D, thankfully, just the regular, regular D. Um regular D. Regular D is the best D. But good movie, good time.
SPEAKER_00You're still at the theater, you got movie popcorn, you got your pop. It's all good things. And the kids don't care. They had an awesome time and it was fun.
SPEAKER_04You survived it. No motion sickness, no neck kink.
SPEAKER_00Just neck kink, but that's the thing with theaters nowadays with those recliners. You just throw that thing back and you're easy breezy.
SPEAKER_05Those those theaters, they need to uh some of those seats are looking pretty haggard. Oh, yeah. I don't know if you've noticed. I've been through some stuff. Yeah. It's not very luxurious anymore. No, no. It's more like couch on the side of the road than you sat down on.
SPEAKER_01A different bag.
SPEAKER_04It's good. Like when you're shopping for furniture when you have kids, and you're like, you see the thing that you like, but you're like, how is this gonna wear? Because you're a dad now and you know that your kids are gonna start to destroy things. They didn't consider that.
SPEAKER_00No, no, it's just pleather, just pleather, thin plether. That ain't gonna age. That was back to back.
Solo Dad Weekends And No Plans
SPEAKER_00Was it back to back? Or two and I think it was two out of three weekends. I was solo daddy. Um because they did one cottage weekend where the ladies went away, and then another weekend where my wife was training because she's doing yoga training right now. Right. So I had two yoga two mom-free weekends uh of three, and it was uh it was a lot, it was a lot of fun though. All good things. Okay, that's the thing. When you can throw it into dad mode, and that's the difference between me and Meg and our parenting. She feels like when she has a solo weekend, she's gotta structure that shit out. Like she has to have a plan in place, she has to know where they're going, they have to go and do things where I'm like, at least one of the two days, I have zero plans. We are flying by the seat of our pants. I haven't planned a meal, I've got no excursions on the go. We will maybe get outside, but other than that, we're just gonna figure it out. That's like that's my favorite time I've decided, not I've decided, but I've discovered, I guess, with my kids, is that like just at home, just playing games. We're like, they're getting to that fun age. My son's six, my daughter's nine. We're like they can kind of get board games now. So like all the simple board games they're into, and like just play. Like my son Cooper does not want to do anything, but like play baseball, play hockey, play whatever he can as long as he's moving. So, like just dialing in on that and just having a day at home where like Meg sends a check in, how the kids are like, Oh, we're all good, we're just hanging out at home, playing stuff. I'm like, that allows me to just shut everything out. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04You're not trying to get work done or think about work or do the other things, you're just doing one thing.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. And I think the other can do that. I I don't doubt that that's what that does for Meg, having that plan in place and going out and doing things, like makes her feel like she's dialed in on that. But like for me, it's it is at home and it is where yeah, I guess putting that together a bit. Like, I feel like for her, she feels like she's at home, she should be dishes or cleaning or tidying or doing something. Like that's maybe her place where she feels like she has that pressure of doing something that isn't just engaging with the kids. But for me, it's just like no, I'm locked in.
SPEAKER_04But is it also a difference of like what would you do with a free day? Like a Joey having a free day would like you, I think you've said you would sit and watch movies and like you kind of like having a a chill day. Yes, it's where if she had a free day, she would fill it with like wanting to go do yoga or go meet somebody or do like she likes being out.
SPEAKER_05She's more of a doer. That's like when I had the kids for myself for a week with my by myself for a weekend. I did the same where I did what I miss doing.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_05Like, and that was being spontaneous. It was just like the Friday night I got home, I'm like, kids, get in the car, we're going. I'm like, uh, Leo's like gotten into baseball recently, so I'm like, Leo, we're going to buy you uh a baseball glove. Get in the car. Nice. So we went to Team Town in Whitby. Yeah. And they have batting like a virtual batting cage there. Oh, I didn't just like it's not a it's not like a legit, it's like you just hit off a T into a screen. Okay. But like the three kids all had a their go at it and they had a blast. Like the worker there was so nice. Uh it was really cute. And uh yeah, Riley, my my daughter, the middle child, she can she's got a good swing. Oh get her into ball, but she's not, she's yeah, got other plans. Anyway, it was really fun. Like the and then the Saturday we were out the entire day. Nice. I didn't really have it like planned out, but it was just like, yeah, one thing after the other we did all day, and I was exhausted when I got home. Like, I am not used to this. Yeah, uh, but I didn't re it was great, a great day, and then Sunday it was just shut it straight down. Like we're not doing a thing today. Yeah. But it was really nice to just be, I don't know, like uh not think about as much things. Like, I appreciate you, Maddie, my wife, for all of the things you think about and all of the things that I like, yeah, you cover that I don't think about at all. But like sometimes you don't need to leave the house with all the water bottles and a million snacks. We'll just figure it out.
SPEAKER_01The kids tune into that and they know it's just dad, and they're like, Dad, it's my water here. It's like, nah, nah, I don't got my mom, and they don't say no water, they're like, What do you mean? It's like water.
SPEAKER_04Take like a reel about that, where there's the dad's like, I'm taking the kids to the park, and she's like, but you don't have and he's just like they have like dramatic music playing behind him, like he's walking off into the sunset of this like explosion. Yeah, it's like that's how dads do, we figure it out. I was proud of myself when we because it was when Ben's Peterborough basketball tournament, that's when I was solo. So I was taking the girls with us trekking around to Ben's basketball and then trying to keep them entertained there and in between games trying to keep them entertained. But I uh I got them to pack a bag, so I told them to pack their own bags, so they each packed like a backpack with some coloring stuff and stuff to keep them entertained when they would get bored during a basketball game. And then I grabbed just like a grocery bag and went to the cupboard and just threw a bunch of snacks in because I'm like, I know at some point I'm gonna get a data want snack. So then I was like, here you go. There's snacks in a bag. I did the thing, I was like proud of myself. I'm like, I did what my wife would do. I packed some food and I thought about something.
SPEAKER_00I was gonna say, like, all that said, there's nothing quite like if you actually are prepared in the moment and you do have the snack when they say it. And like, because yeah, one of our excursions that we went out because we have a backpack that stays by the front door that has a couple of Tupperwares that just have like the granola bars, the things that don't go bad because they're in packaging and they're man-made. Um, so that just sits by the front door. And I remembered to grab that that day and I had my big water bottle with me, and there was definitely that moment where the kids are like, I'm hungry. And I was like, Well, you're in luck.
SPEAKER_04So, all that being said, most are are uh is crew in diapers still or no. So most like all of our kids are out of diapers, right? So we don't have to think of the diaper bag anymore. So like we are at a different stage of parenting,
Newborn Feeding Panic And Bottles
SPEAKER_04yeah. Because one thing I was interested in was were you guys ever nervous to stay home alone with your kid when they were young, like a baby or younger ages, or were you always comfortable with it?
SPEAKER_05I was always comfortable with it. I was like, what's the worst that could happen? Right. I I just don't stress about those things. We'll figure it out.
SPEAKER_04And did you grow up around babies, or had you ever had any experience with babies before you were?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I had with my nieces, right? Yeah, and I would babysit them and stuff, so I was like fairly comfortable with all that stuff already. Right. So it wasn't a big deal.
SPEAKER_04And like similar with Joey's family having so many kids before us, like we were around babies forever. So like I hadn't changed a diaper into my own kid, right? But I had been around it and taken care of and like babysat kids when they were little infants and dealing with them puking or dealing with like having to feed them a bottle and stuff like that. I can remember promise, no, it might have been Hope, who's our second oldest niece niece. Um, she was a baby, and I remember like giving her a bottle and her like falling asleep on my chest by like a fireplace at their for at their house, and it was amazing. But like I got to have those experiences. I was just a teenager at the time, I was probably like 18 or 19.
SPEAKER_02That's cool.
SPEAKER_04Um, so I got to have some of those baby experiences. So when I had a kid, I wasn't necessarily afraid of holding them or changing them or taking care of them, but I can imagine for somebody who hasn't had an experience before, and it's just all of a sudden you're given this life form and you're in charge of keeping it alive. And then your wife dips out to go to the store and you're alone. And like I can remember one moment with my son when my wife went out. I think she went to a concert with the girls, and they were coming back through traffic, and she was supposed to be back in time for the next feeding cycle, the next time that it would happen, and she wasn't, and I didn't have a bottle, didn't have formula, just had a crying kid. And I remember sitting in his room on the rocking chair, he's crying, and I'm like, I like I don't know what to do. Like, I was like, I had a moment of like uh like a I don't know, like panic, I guess you could say, or like I just like I couldn't stop him from crying. I was rocking him, I was doing the things, and like you're also angry because it's like you said you would be home, but then you're not home, and now I'm dealing with this, and you know gets in the door, and it's like take the baby and figure this out, like yeah, yeah. So it can't it can be hard and those beginning of it.
SPEAKER_00I remember the first time it was similar, and I think I've told the story before, but like, yeah, I had a similar thing happen with Murph when the first time that Meg went out for an evening and uh she had we had done bottles, they were ready to rock, but Murph just would not take the bottle. And I remember just getting so frustrated where we're just like, I'm doing all the things she's taken bottles before because we had like practice with her something that we wanted her to be able to do. So then Meg would often like supplement and then do uh extra pumping so that we'd always have some available. But yeah, she wouldn't take it. Got to the point where I was using uh syringe. I had the idea where like we had those medicine syringes, so I'm like sucking it up in the syringe, squirting it in her mouth. I'm like, I'm getting food into this kid one way or another. But may like she just wasn't having it for whatever reason that night, so she was just kept losing it, kept losing it. I remember putting her down and going to the other room and just like yelling into a pillow because I was just like so frustrated. And it was actually right at that moment that uh Josh and Laura popped over just to like check in because they knew that I was only there with her kid. And like I had gone back in, picked up the kid, and like put on the face to be like, Oh yeah, everything's okay. We had a good chat. I was like, Yeah, and she's not really doing it. Laura's like, all right, well, give her to me. Like, took her, she ended up taking like half a bottle down, and then everything kind of settled down after that. But it was that was I wasn't nervous going into it, and then because we had had those experiences, I had fed her bottles and I had had those moments with Meg there, and I felt very confident as a dad. But then babies can definitely shatter your confidence. Oh, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Like that.
SPEAKER_00We're like, oh, you think you're good at this thing? Yeah, enough crying will shatter anyone. Oh man, yeah, it breaks you down in a way you don't even realize.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and uh, I don't know if I I think I told this like way back, but uh don't be afraid to test the milk. Like if your baby's not drinking the bottle, see what's going on, check the milk because the milk might be bad because that happened to me. Couldn't figure out why Leo wasn't drinking his bottle, and then like I was just like, something smells like a little off, and then I tasted it, and I was like, that is disgusting. I tasted like soap, like it was so it was so bad. So I was like, Yep, uh, sorry, dude. Yeah, I felt bad for Maddie too, because it's all that like there was so much of it in the freezer that it had just gone bad. It's a lot of work, it's a lot of work, yeah. Oh man. Yeah, shed a little tear for her.
SPEAKER_00I feel like that's an area where a lot of dads can struggle, is like the feeding because it's the one thing that we are helpless with. It's like you got nothing in your nipples, like there's nothing coming out of you. So, like if a kid isn't taking whatever food you've been left with, it's like I got no way out of this.
SPEAKER_04Okay, so it's ironic that we go into talking about kids and food, right? Um, especially as babies. Right.
Dinner Meltdowns With Older Kids
SPEAKER_04And and you think it gets better over time. But I told Brian when he got here, he's asked how I was doing. I'm like, I'm good. I'm a lie.
SPEAKER_05Like he's like, I'm okay. And that's like that's not a Dave language. It's like, what's wrong?
SPEAKER_04And it was like dinner was tough, right? And like as tough as it can be to get a baby to take their bottle, it is just as tough to get a eight uh year old and a 13-year-old to eat their dinner. And it was really frustrating, and I I definitely didn't handle it well. Um, I exploded a bit. Um and I'm realizing, and uh a question I wanted to ask you guys was how do you deal with unresolved anger? So I think my wife, because I kind of blew up a little bit and like, you don't eat your dinner, no screens for the rest of the night. Youngest daughter storms off with her phone so that I couldn't take it. So I charge after her and grab the phone and come back down. She's crying, and I'm like, Go eat your dinner then. That's all you gotta do. Eat me too much. 13-year-old is chewy. I'm like, why are you fucking whining about your food? Just eat what's in front of you. Because I also know how much my wife has been struggling to make dinners because it's like one day the kids like something, another day they don't. She'll make their favorite meal. Like today was just freaking like chicken and pierogies and the Pillsbury buns. But the chicken was like a little chewy. Like it wasn't perfect and they wouldn't eat it. And I'm like, okay, I get it. It's not like the best chicken you've ever had in the world, but just eat your goddamn food. Right. And like I we are always been kind of easygoing. So I also understand the dynamic for the kids when it's like, why does dad all of a sudden care about this? When on another day he wouldn't. So I kind of go sit down. My wife's like, um, I think you might be dealing with something, and maybe it's kind of coming out wrong to the kids. And uh I don't think like taking away screens is kind of a appropriate punishment for this. Um, and I'm like, fine, like you, you won't you deal with this however you want to deal with this. I'm good. I've said my piece, yeah, I can tap out of this and you do what you gotta do. So she went out for a walk with my son. My daughter was up in her room and I was just sitting there and trying to process the frustration that I was feeling, the anger that I was feeling, and like my wife recognizing that this isn't you, this isn't how you typically respond to a situation. I understand why you are frustrated, but there might be something deeper here. So I'm sitting there pondering and thinking on those thoughts.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_04And realizing, like last night, like I met with my sister for lunch the other or yesterday, and we talked about family stuff and not realizing how big of an effect it had on me until seeing myself react to things in a way that I wouldn't. Right.
SPEAKER_05You felt like that was the source.
SPEAKER_04I think so. Yeah, and I think there's just some like unresolved anger in there for myself that kind of got stirred up. Um, because even last night I just felt angry for no reason.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_04And then today I had a great day, nothing was really bothering me, and then just the smallest thing like tipped me over in a way that it normally wouldn't. Um, normally I would have grace for the kids, right? I'd help them out. And God, mind you, I did. I cut up the boy's chicken smaller for him, I got him a new piece of chicken, I gave chances and chances, right? Um, but just like that concept. So as I'm processing my thoughts and my feelings around things, if anger is a feeling that you're feeling about whatever, the past, a situation, circumstances, whatever it might be, how does somebody process anger in order to move beyond that or past that without just like burying it or forgetting about it? Does it have to be conversations had? Can it be just kind of like how do you release that? I know I'll ramble on a little bit to give you more time to think about how to fix me. Um the other thing I know for myself is that hockey ended what three weeks ago? Yeah, four weeks ago. Haven't had a physical activity. Baseball got canceled because of the weather.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And I know this about me.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_04That I need physical activity to regulate my body. And if I haven't had it, then it starts to build up to a point that's I can't handle things anymore. So it's like I'm trying to process a lot of these thoughts and these feelings, and it's like, I know I gotta go do this thing, like whether it's go for a walk or do a workout or play a sport. It's like I know that will help me, but is that just kind of also putting a band-aid on things as well?
SPEAKER_00I wouldn't call it putting a band-aid on things because, like you said, I think it is a part of regulating yourself and learning that that is something that you need to keep yourself regulated in order to have physical exertion and
Processing Anger Without Shame
SPEAKER_00work out those energies. I think one of the things that is clicking around in my brain, again, therapy has been good for learning about this stuff for me because that's been the main focus of most of my therapy is processing emotion. And I think one of the things is realizing that it's not bad to be angry. It's not bad that you got angry at your kids. You just you got angry at a situation that was a frustrating situation. I think it's good to be able to have that moment to sit back and reflect about it. Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. Yeah, the problem is trying to bury it, the problem is thinking I shouldn't be getting angry. Okay, breathe, just get over it, get past it. All right. I think the good thing is to be able to give yourself a moment to be like, all right, well, that was a thing. I got pretty pissed off right there. What can I connect that to? Why did I get angry? Because that isn't how I want to be able to react to my kids in those moments. And I think those are the important reflective moments, and I think the big things too as parents are the repair, where it's like coming back to it afterwards with your kids to be like, my bad. For one, I probably shouldn't have wada, whatda, what uh. But also the explanation, because I think that's important for our kids too, to be like, there's a reason why that happened. Like, sure, there may have been times in the past where you haven't seen me react like that because you didn't eat your food, but there are these reasons why that's really frustrating. And like I've had we've had those conversations with our kids, and like we that's an area where Meg and I got on the same page pretty early because we had a very similar upbringing for food specifically, where it was very much you don't leave the table until your food is done. So, like whether it's cold, whether you're crying, whether whatever, you're sitting there and you're eating your food or you're not getting up from the table.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00We're like, well, we didn't love that. Right. Like Meg struggles with major food anxiety. I struggled with food for a while, but then I was able to get past it, but I just didn't like that dynamic of like you don't get a choice here.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00But at the same time, I think we were we were loose with it early. We also had kids who ate early, which was like it was a trap. So don't fall into that trap, people. We had uh both the kids went to daycare and they had very unique um diets at the daycare. So they got exposed to food that we were never gonna feed them because Meg's got food anxiety and would live off of French fries. Um, but then as they got into daycare and got in and probably met with kids at daycare, and as they got through that, and you start in integrating with other kids at lunchtime, they learned that hey, I can just say no to food. As soon as that happened, then all of our good wishes went bye-bye and they started not eating things. Um, but yeah, so we we did try to find our groove as far as how we were gonna do it, and then our goal since then is just be as consistent as possible with the kids. Right. Where we've always told them they're allowed to listen to their bodies. If they are truly full, they can stop eating. That is fine. If they come to us and ask for a snack before bedtime, it's not gonna happen because you told us you were full and that's why you stopped eating. And it's like all these little things that we integrated into how we parent around food that we've just tried to be as consistent as as possible as we walk through it. Um yeah, as far as the anger is concerned, it is it's a tricky one, and I think that's been the big one for me is like recognizing it and not giving myself shame for it because it's totally valid to be angry. And like it's it can suck. You don't want to get angry at your kids because you immediately feel like shit. You're like you never want to come down on your kids and have them have that moment of like, oh, either like a little scared of dad or obviously feel shit about themselves because you've just yelled at them or whatever, but at the same time, it's like, no, I'm allowed, I'm also allowed to be angry. Like, that's a really frustrating and dumb thing that I haven't.
SPEAKER_05And how you work through the anger is it's totally dependent on what the source of it is.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Like, if it's something that's like an ongoing thing that like makes you angry all the time and it's nothing's changing, then it's it's always for me, it's uh okay. I just have to adjust my expectations here.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_05And like that's how I work through it. I would like I would ask uh my therapist if that was like a healthy thing to do, like am I just avoiding the the subject or whatever, and she's like, no, that's that is a healthy solution to a problem, essentially. It's like there's no like unless you can have like if you have all the conversations that you need to have with people, like um, and there's really nothing left to be said, then yeah, it is just a matter of adjusting your expectations for that relationship or that situation uh and moving forward that
Expectations And Healthy Boundaries
SPEAKER_05way. Um I had a a bit of a sometimes I have a hard time sharing uh with my personal situation with my dad because I don't want to like put him on blast or anything, but I had a bit of a like a uh a moment. My birthday was a couple weeks ago or last week. And uh was it last week? Two weeks ago, and um I didn't even realize it, but my mom was home, was at my place a few days after my birthday, and she just asked if my dad had contacted me on my birthday, because that was like that was like the bare minimum for like a while, and I was like, I I honestly hadn't even thought about it, right? And I I was actually like really happy about that because I was like I and I was not bothered by it whatsoever. And it's something that used to make me really angry or like I really disappoint me because it was like this is the one thing that I could count on you, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Um but I I just I realized that I think that for me that's is a really healthy way for me to deal with all of this that situation anyway. Um, and I was just like relieved that I didn't feel that like bitterness anymore. Right. Um it was just nice to have that like feedback from myself, yeah. Because like she was my mom was getting upset about it.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_05Like, mom, like I don't care. Like, don't worry about it. I'm good. Right.
SPEAKER_00And it's a good thing that I don't care.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like it is what it is. Yeah, was there anything that you did to help yourself get to a point of not caring, or has it just been time or just time, just like yeah, adjusting my expectations and like being okay with uh yeah, the expectation, like like being okay with the expectation being literally nothing. Uh if there's no relationship there, then it is what it is, and it's like I'm okay with that. Right. I just like and uh it's I don't know, it sounds weird to say, but it's I just I just am. Yeah, it's like I'm not giving this any of my energy. Uh it's not beneficial to me or to my family.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_05Um, yeah. Anyway, that's how like it doesn't matter if it's that situation or anything else. Like, yeah, for me, it's adjusting expectations if it's not working for you.
SPEAKER_04Right. Yeah. I think for me, sometimes there can be things where you get used to that or you do adjust your expectations, um, or you you feel like you've dealt with something, but then when all of a sudden you're pulled back into it, then like whether it's affecting somebody else, and then all of a sudden they're sharing how that thing that you've thought you've let go of and are good and at peace with is affecting them now, and then you're like, Oh fuck, no, maybe that's still there. No, like now that you bring that back up, that's still like that still triggers that.
SPEAKER_05The tricky part is though, you're an empathetic person, so you could just be taking on their emotions.
SPEAKER_00That's a very good point, too. So and I think part of it too, like it yeah, for scenarios like that where it is actually working through it to figure out what your reaction is, why your reaction is what it is, and what you're actually going to do about it, because that's what helps set the boundaries and the new expectations is something that Meg's been learning a bunch about with her therapy, where I think people can confuse boundaries sometimes because it's such a wide wide breadth of things that it can be. It's not even necessarily I'm gonna set a boundary here, so that means I'm gonna put up a wall here. Yep. Boundaries are understanding why things affect you the way they are based on what other people are doing, and then what you're now going to do about it.
SPEAKER_04Say that one more time.
SPEAKER_00So, and again, this is probably not overly correct, but it's not necessarily about cutting somebody off because that's what I always envision boundaries as. Yeah, as always. I'm gonna put up a wall here, I'm gonna put up a boundary, and you're no longer gonna affect my life. It's more addressing, okay, what is it about what they are doing that is actually affecting me? Because it often, especially in I think scenarios like that, Brian, with your dad, because I I had a very similar relationship with my dad, where it's like it's not even necessarily something they're doing, it's something that they're not even doing. Yeah, right. So it's like it's not affecting their day, they're not even realizing they're doing this thing, yeah, but it's having a big effect on your day. So recognize that for what it is, and then the boundary is deciding what you're going to do about it to change the behavior and how it affects you and what you maybe can do about it to let them know the effects of that and what you're going to do about it in the future. Where that's what again, I'll I don't want to speak for Meg and I won't give her any of her scenarios, but it's very much that for her, where it's like it's addressing the person to say, and it's having the confidence and the ability to have that conversation to say to them the boundary is hey, when you do this, this is the things that it does to me. And I don't think that's your intention. I hope it's not your intention, but I'm just telling you this is how it's going down, and this is how it's affecting me. So when this happens again in the future, this is how I'm going to react, just so that you're aware. I'm going to say this, I'm going to do this, or I'm not going to do this. Right. And that is how this is going to play out going forward because I'm no longer going to let this scenario play out and affect me, affect the ones that I love, whatever it may be, right? But it's setting up those, and I think expectations are a better way to describe that because it is letting everybody know when this scenario happens again, because it keeps happening over and over again. This is now what I'm going to do about it because I'm no longer going to let your choices affect me in my life in this way. So that's yeah, she's had a couple of those conversations. And that's a healthy boundary. Yeah, and they're it they're healthy and they're hard. Like those are two great H-words for that, right? Where it's like that can be some of the most difficult conversations you're ever going to have. But after that, everybody knows. Everybody knows the scenario, everybody knows what's going to play out the next time this thing goes down instead of it happening again, happening again, happening again.
SPEAKER_04Right. It's just hard when the thing does kind of affect you. Yeah. So, like, and it was interesting, like talking with my sister and she's like, Man, sorry. Like, she texted me after, she's like, that was a really heavy conversation. Like, right, I didn't mean for it to be like that. And it was like, no, it's fine. Like, I honestly didn't think it was a heavy conversation. I really enjoyed chatting with you about that until I start to see some like symptoms show up. And I'm like, shit, was I just like putting on a strong face and trying to be brave about something that is actually like deep down, like whether I'm afraid, whether I'm scared, like the feelings that I'm feeling.
Parenting Your Parents And Burnout
SPEAKER_04And like part of it, so to say, like the the boundary and the expectation. Like, so with parents getting older and making medical choices for themselves that aren't necessarily the smartest medical choices for themselves. Right. And then that in turn does and will affect you on whether or not their lifespan, like how long their lifespan is, right? Um, it's like you're making a dumb choice. And like, I can't control your choices, I can't control what you're doing. Right. But what made you think that this was a good decision? And like having to parent your parents all of a sudden in that switch of life cycle of your parents getting to that elderly age and no longer fully understanding what they're reading, what they're seeing, what they're hearing through news and media and people and it affecting their choices. And they're not asking you because they're the parent, so they're making like they don't need to ask their kid what to do with things sometimes. But then you're like, Oh my god, like what are you doing? Like, how do you think this was a good choice? And it's like you it's hard to put up a boundary and let them just make their own choices at that point because you know what they are doing could then in turn affect you, your kids, your siblings, and how things pan out kind of thing, right? Yeah, so it it that aspect of it I'm finding kind of like hard to wrestle with, and like even like with your parents, like we've mums made some choices that are like, these aren't smart choices. Like, what are we doing here? This isn't setting you up, and it's easier for me with your parents because they're in-laws, and it's like that's I can disassociate that, but then all of a sudden shit starts happening in my family, and it's like, oh hell, this is what you guys have been dealing with.
SPEAKER_00And it is like a lot of that is you have to decide how much of your time, energy, and emotions you're going to invest into even that relationship where it's your parents, like yeah, you only have one set of parents. And that's the point that I've had to come to over the last couple of years where it's like you do have to prioritize. And like, am I going to start parenting my parents? Am I going to step into the yeah, time and energy to be able to do that? Exactly. Because those can be good. They like, can I offer a lot to that relationship? Absolutely. Can I be a voice of reason and can I speak with love and compassion to say, listen, you're making these decisions, and I don't agree with them. And I I feel like, yeah, you can feel like you can deliver that and be the one that can cut through the noise and be the one to change the trajectory of the decisions that they're making. That's a lot of work, and that's a lot of hand holding, that's a lot of emotions. So there is a piece of that that is like, do I have the time and energy and emotion to do that right now? No, like that's kind of the decision I had to come to where I I'd gotten more invested into my mom's decisions and what they were doing going forward, and I ultimately had to decide where I was just like, I I can't. I don't have it's taking too much away from me. It is starting to affect how I am at home, and that's the more important thing to me right now. And it kind of sucks as a really uh realization to get to because I think we all are very like helpful and loving and kind of passionate people, so we want to help. Um but there is that fact of like you have your life, you've built your life, you have your kids, you have your partner, you have these things that are more important to you. And like that is what it comes down to.
SPEAKER_04And I think for me, I think one of the things I'm realizing while chatting it through is normally having that physical outlet, I think allows me to process that tension that's in my body, perhaps, where it's like that frustration or anger or sadness or whatever those feelings are, they can kind of build up in that knot. Yeah, where that physical activity, that playing the sport, that letting it out kind of releases that built-up knot so that you aren't snapping at your kid. Where when you let that tension build in your body, then not eating your chicken one night all of a sudden tips the scale for you, kind of thing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And that's where I mean, even this, right?
Therapy Tools And Regulation Habits
SPEAKER_00Like doing this does that to a certain extent as well. I'll say for me, where it is a matter of like being able to talk things through. And I think again, the importance of therapy for me, where it's like that's what I've learned a ton through that, is it's just like there's different types of therapy, like physical activity is a type of therapy where it's like getting that out is a release, it is endorphins, it is a bunch of different things that affect how your brain works and how your body works. Therapy does that as well from an emotional standpoint, where it is talking it through, it is understanding where does that come from, so that I feel like to an extent that for me the the physical exertion can feel like more of the band-aid, almost to what we were saying earlier, where it's like it is more of a more of a coping mechanism for me, where it's important and I need it and it does help me cope with life and get through. But what I've found for myself is therapy is what is helping me understand myself more so that things that I have struggled with that I didn't even necessarily know that I was struggling with, I'm starting to get resolution on. And I'm starting to understand more so that when these moments show up, um, I think specifically I'll just cause we already talked about it with my mom, where now when I get a message or I get a phone call at a bad time where I can't answer it before, I'd be written with guilt, where I'd just be like, Man, how could I not answer when my mom's calling if that's my mom? Um, and I would beat myself up for it. Wouldn't end up calling her back or messaging her back because I was too busy giving myself shit for not answering the phone in the first place. Right. Where now I have a better understanding for when I see the call pop up and I don't have the ability to answer it, I know why now. And it's like, all right.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, therapy gives you the tools to handle the repeating situation. Exactly. Where now it's like the exertion might deal with it in that moment, but then when it happens again, you might be re-triggered, or it might those emotions might come where therapy can give you the tools to process it. So when the same thing keeps happening, you have the ability to understand and process through it in that moment.
SPEAKER_00I think specifically when it has to do with the relationships in your life, right? Because those aren't going away, especially when it's family, where it's like those aren't gonna go anywhere. So if there are triggers that are happening, it's specifically associated with family members, I guess it's not probably not gonna change. So then having those tools and those things that we work through where it's like, all right, breathe, think about it, you know why this is happening, take your moment and set yourself a reminder to come back to this in 24 hours and get the message back and come at it with understanding, right? Um so I think that's yeah, those are some of the things that have been big for me for that.
SPEAKER_04Which I think like a conversation like this, like our kids are older now and we're dealing with this, but like for somebody who has a newborn, that's probably one of the highest tension phases even of your life. Um so to understand what we're talking about, like we didn't necessarily have these conversations earlier on in the podcast, or maybe we did if we go back and listen. But like for sure, but dealing with that frustration when you have a newborn on top of things and what those sleepless nights can be like. So I'm thinking more like learning for yourself how to deal with and process things because when you are in the heat of the moment of lack of sleep, kid crying, um, and then you and your wife bickering or arguing about something that's stupid and doesn't matter.
SPEAKER_05But it's just like it compounds everything.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and I think then at least you kind of have the like that to put your hat on of it's like, ah, you know, we're just both like really sleep deprived and life is crazy. So you can kind of see it and associate it better, but it's like maybe taking that second of like shit, why am I reacting like this? Like, what do I need right now to be able to handle the situations better, handle the high intensity moment in a different way? So learning for yourself what that is, whether that is getting out and playing a sport, whether that's reading a book, whether that's hanging out with the guys, going out with somebody for coffee, just being able to chat and vent and get it off of your mind so that you can reset yourself to get back into that war zone, if that's what the case is at home, right?
SPEAKER_00Exactly, or get back into it and and restart the conversation that was an argument from a position of listening and understanding. Yes. Where it's like, all right, well, the other night was kind of nuts.
SPEAKER_01Can we look at that again?
SPEAKER_00Because this is why, and like having that ability to be reflective for yourself, to come back to that conversation with the explanation of like, I think this is why I reacted that way. I'm not saying that it's right, I'm not saying that you were wrong. I just want to let you know this is why I'm at where I'm at with that, right? And like thinking back now, where it's like, I think Meg and I navigated a lot of that relatively well at that those stages. We definitely still had really bad nights and really bad days where you're you're flipping off over to nothing. Um but how much knowing this stuff back then could have been helpful. And like not just you can never say, like, oh, what position would we be in now if we do all that back then, right? But it's like, yeah, if you can take this type of mindset and these conversations into those early stages of parenting that are so difficult, it's not necessarily gonna mean you're gonna breeze through it.
SPEAKER_01It's still gonna be just as hard as it was for all of us because sleep deprivation's a bitch.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but maybe again, it just gives people those few tools to be able to navigate it a little bit easier and to at least have grace and understanding for each other.
SPEAKER_04Think of it like a business, like our business 10 years later isn't any easier. But if we knew the tools that we knew now back then, it's like would it have been easier? It's like, no, it would be the same hardness it is now. It's like you look back at that first bathroom we did, and it's like, oh, that was rough. Like setting penny round tiles in a shower on a not level or proper base at all. I hope they've sold that house, but now the skills and everything you know, you're like, oh, looking back, it would be so much easier. But then life and running a business is still hard. It's like parenting is still hard. It's never easy, things are just always changing and evolving, right? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well, and every kid and every set of parents are different, right? Like there's nothing that we're gonna be able to sit here and tell anybody that's gonna make their lives infinitely easier, exactly. Yeah, but maybe a little bit of understanding and yeah, maybe just that encouragement, I'd say, specifically to dads, because that's who we can speak to on this, is just that. Like, don't be afraid to start to learn a little bit about yourself and try to figure out the earlier the better. Yeah, the earlier the better. And if there's things that you're doing or things that you're reacting, or things about yourself that you know aren't in alignment with who you want to be as a parent, as a partner, as a person, then start to look into that and start to peel back the layers of that because they're if it's not in alignment with who you want to be, then you have the ability to change that. Like we're the only person who writes our own story here. But it is gonna take some digging off there because if it's connected to something that has happened to you in your life or something about the way that you were raised, you have to recognize that first before you can start to change and manipulate the way that you want to be going forward. Because without understanding, you can't change, because then it's just the same patterns are going to happen because you don't have those equipment and that knowledge that is telling you that this is why. And without the why, then you can't, yeah, you can't it's much more difficult to move past it and move forward.
SPEAKER_04And that's what I would say,
Repair After Yelling At Your Kids
SPEAKER_04like that. I'm grateful the position I am in, because like before coming here, I was able to talk to both the kids and repair what had gone on through the the dinner fiasco. Um, but I also was able to hear my wife telling me, like, I don't think what you're feeling right now has to do with the dinner. And I was like, Oh, like instead of being like, fuck you, yeah, like don't tell me what's what. Like, I I know myself, and I'm pissed about this, and I'm allowed to be pissed about this, and I'm gonna be pissed about this. Yeah, it was like check, and I was like, hmm, okay, like I hear you. I'm still currently angry, yeah. I'm still currently a little buzzing. I hear you though, and like I just gonna need some space to to sit and think about it.
SPEAKER_05Good on both of you for how you both handled that, because like for her to approach you in that way and not just like call you a piece of shit.
SPEAKER_04Basically I hope that's a testament to her going to therapy and knowing how to handle those conversations, and like it was great. She she approached it really well, and yeah, she took my son out of the house and went for a walk, which allowed the room to breathe.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_04My daughter was upstairs, and I was able to kind of like reflect, understand what was going on, went up and opened the door to her room and got the hmm, like the angry, like, hmm, like leave me alone. You're not allowed in here. Yeah. Hi, baby, and like laid down on the ground with her and kind of like, you know, like daddy shouldn't have reacted that way. And and I understand that. But but also these are why I am reacting this way, and the concern that I have about you eating food, and I want to make sure you have enough food so that you're healthy, and that's part of my job as a parent is to make sure that you're getting the nourishment that you need. Um, and we had a good conversation and then started like folding laundry, and my wife and son came back from the walk, and he came up and he was like, Dad, like uh, I'm really sorry for the way that I responded. He's like, I had a good chat with mom while we were walking, and I understand that you were kind of just like standing up for mom in that moment, and blah blah blah. And I'm like, Yeah, but like also like I didn't handle that well either. And like we were able to have that back and forth, and he was kind of able to understand why I was upset, right? And I was able to let him know that that's also not okay, but we need to respect our mom, and yeah, sometimes the food's not gonna be the best, she's not gonna make 10 out of 10 meals every day, right? But sometimes you gotta just chew and swallow and do it for your mom.
SPEAKER_05Shut up and eat in the sports world. We say this is where you learn more from your losses than you do for your kids. Go Kenny's. Go kenny's.
SPEAKER_04So I mean, we'll see how it's going because after all of that, I still heard my daughter crying and leaving from my wife after that. So you can try to talk to kids all you want, but sometimes they're just not gonna hear it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Well, running and calling for mommy happens about 20 times a day in my house.
SPEAKER_04Running from mommy. She was like, I was like, babe, I just repaired that. What did you do? I honestly don't know.
SPEAKER_05And that's called a fumble.
SPEAKER_04I wish I knew. But yeah, it's just one of those, like, it was really interesting coming to a dad podcast ever having like a very like dad moment of that dad frustration, and just like I think there's a part of me that just kept thinking that you wouldn't have to deal with these same problems. Right. Yeah. Because I think one of my other blow ups that I had way earlier on was like a same thing where it's like the kids doing something that you think you're past. It's like, why are we dealing with this right now? Like this was shit we dealt with when you were three or two. Like, why are we dealing with this now?
SPEAKER_05Like that's the exhaustion.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and you just want to say, like, grow the fuck up, man. Like, what the fuck are you guys doing here? Like, you're older now, but you're still in the shit. Like, you're still a parent. You don't get to escape it until they're old and gone from the house, and then you get to be the problem as they prayer at you, right? That's how you do it. Full cycle. Full cycle.
SPEAKER_05Do you guys ever get uh catch yourself in like a scenario and you're like searching for the word like how to like the words to say to deal with the situation, but you're like worried that you're gonna say it the wrong way.
Truth Telling Without Shaming Kids
SPEAKER_05Like tonight, for example. I find like I this happens to me a lot. Okay, because I'm also at the same time thinking about like I know Maddie's listening to me, and I want to say the right thing here.
SPEAKER_06I got you.
SPEAKER_05I don't like anyway. So tonight I was it was like uh you gotta eat this food before you can have dessert.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_05So that was the battle with our youngest. He was like refusing, and then he was like being all coy about it, and then all of a sudden I like look away for a second, and then I like Riley, my middle child, was there with him, and she like runs over to the the uh sink to the garbage. I hear the door open and then slam, and I'm like, and then they're like, I'm done my food, and I'm like, there is not a chance you're done your food. I'm like, where's your apple crew? He's like, I ate it. I'm like, no, you didn't. So I like I I realize what happened. Like, Riley took his apple and threw it in the garbage for him uh to help him get to his dessert faster. So in her mind, she's like helping him out. 100%. Helping my brother. She also committed to the lie, too.
SPEAKER_04Oh yeah, they're in it together.
SPEAKER_05So then I'm like, guys, I know that you're both lying to me. Like, you're not you're not telling me the truth right now. I would like one of you to tell me what happened, and so like I'm asking them, and then like I'm staring Riley like directly in the eye. And then I see Crew like smirking over there at the end of the table. Like, Crew, where's the apple? And then Riley like runs over to the garbage and she starts like searching through the garbage. I'm like, Riley, just leave it, it's fine. She's like, I'm really sorry, Dad. Like, I did it, and she like starts apologizing. And so that I'm like, I want to find the right way to deal with this situation without like I don't want to like shame her or like make them feel too bad because it's like it's a learning experience we're having right now. So I'm like, Riley, I know that you're trying to be like a good big sister. Yeah, right. I know you're trying to help him out. I'm I'm like, I feel like a better way to deal with that might have been for you to encourage him to eat his apple.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Like that would be the like a better approach, essentially. I'm like, and then basically asking her to like instead of you like to not be afraid to tell me the truth, even if you've lied, and then I was it was like a whole like I'm proud of you for telling me the truth. Right. Because I know that it's really hard to tell the truth, especially after you have lied about the thing. So like I know that's very hard to do, so I'm proud of you. But she I think I handled it well, but she gets she's very hard on herself,
When Kids Talk Down To Themselves
SPEAKER_05right? So any type of that scenario where she feels like she's been caught and in a lie or whatever, she heads bolts straight to her room, closes the door, she's like screaming in her bed. Yeah, and then I go in and I'm just laying beside her, and she's just like, I'm just the worst kid ever. She's like, I hate myself, and all this. And I'm just like, and like, and then I there's always these stupid reels that play through my head during these scenarios of like how to deal with Dr.
SPEAKER_01Becky through like rolling in his brain, like, where's the one I go?
SPEAKER_05Legit saw a post like last night saying like your initial response shouldn't be like you're not a bad kid, or like that type of like you shouldn't respond to that. Right, you should like try and steer it in a like a learning direction, right? I for and I forget exactly how to deal with that. So I was like, I was just like sitting there listening to her. Um, but it it ended up playing out, and I tried not to really like get too much into like her talking down on herself, but I tried to explain grace to her, which is an interesting thing to explain to a six-year-old. I'm like, yeah, explaining great. She's like, what does that mean? I'm like, well, uh, I'm not great at this with myself, actually.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_05I'd like you to be better. Let's give it a shot. I think it's really important for you to learn this at your age. Uh that you know, you need to not be too hard on yourself, speak very kindly to yourself, because yeah, we tend to be very hard on ourselves, which you're being right now. And it's just like I find myself in those moments all the time of like being afraid to say the wrong thing. Because like I know it's like I just afraid that it's gonna play out in a terrible way in the future.
SPEAKER_04I decided I need to make enough money to pay for their therapy because I don't think too much in my head about what I say, and we know that about me. I just end up saying the thing. So calling your son a whiny little shit isn't the best thing to say, and we repair after that as long as the repair's in place, boys. I know what you mean, like when you're in a good place and you're trying to like even have like a teaching moment.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, because there's times where like I don't have the patience, and I'm just like, uh fine, you're none of you are getting anything. You're going straight to bed. Uh like shut it down.
SPEAKER_04And you when you're in the moment and you've got the right headspace and you want to try and get it right. And I think like I think that's getting it right. Yeah. No matter what you say in that moment, you're trying to get it right. Yeah. Which means like it's gonna be better than any other reaction you could have had, right?
SPEAKER_00Just shutting it down, right? Like, I think any time you're willing to take the time to talk with your kid about what just happened is going to be a good thing. Yeah. Now, let's use a little bit of common sense if you're a listener here at home. Like, you you can definitely say wrong things. Don't be an idiot. True, true, true.
SPEAKER_01But like, like reinforcing them being bad is not a good idea. Like, yeah, you know what, you're right. You are probably the worst kids. Um, you lied, so you suck now.
SPEAKER_00Not a good thing to say to your kid. But I think it is like that's one thing that uh I remember Meg sending me a reel on as well, which is like um the initial thing that you touched on there, which was like, don't focus on the bad thing that they did. Yeah, focus on what they could do differently next time. Yeah, like that's going to be so much better for your kid, and that's what helps them move in that direction of like not focusing on the bad and not focusing on the errors that they make. Yeah. And that's like that's shame, that's guilt, that's all the things that drag us down the other direction. Where it's like, no, just do this next time. And it's setting those expectations for them, right? Where it's like now the next time they come across that, hopefully, these are the things that start to click for them of like, okay, rather than trying to help my brother by taking his thing and doing exactly what my dad didn't want to have happen, I can encourage him and start to move it in that direction.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, because the old way it would have been like, okay, uh, you're lying, and so are you. So both in trouble. You're both in trouble. Go to your don't ever do that again.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. They haven't now learned anything for how to do it differently last time. They just learned another thing that they shouldn't do, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_05So then it was like, now, crew, you're eating two pieces of cucumber instead of your apple. So too bad for you, pal. Right. And he did that happily.
SPEAKER_04So there is a little bit of a part of you that's like slightly proud that they were working together on something too. And it's like, God, I don't love that you're both lying together and that you threw out his apple, but also like, I also love that you're together, like you're in this together, you're going down with the ship together and everything.
SPEAKER_01You're sibling right.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_05It is, it's so weird though, like how a kid so young can be so hard on themselves. Yeah. When it's like, I I I feel like we've talked about it a bunch, but there's really no reason for them to feel that way. Like we've never made them feel that way. So it's just so interesting how we do that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and there's just so many other outside influences on our kids too. Right. And it's like I think that's one of the things that I've realized with that because there are some things that you that I see in my kids that I'm like, I have always spoke confidence and everything into you. Like, why are you lacking this right now, or why are you feeling this way? And realizing that, like, there's other kids at school, there's TV shows, there's teachers that possibly aren't teaching the best way or aren't dealing with those types of situations in the best way at school, and principals, and like there's so many outside influences on our kids, and we try our best because we do have the majority of the day and the majority of the time with them to to help them understand those things about themselves. But like sometimes other people's words can just be so much louder than your own. Yeah. And like they get amplified, and it's like no matter how much it's like, yeah, you're my dad, you're supposed to tell me I'm awesome, or you're supposed to love me. And it's like, but then this one kid online, or this one kid on school says something else, and then that can have so much more weight than your positive word.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and I think also I think sometimes your kids just are that way, like that, yeah, yeah. Those are the feelings that they have in those scenarios, yeah. And these are the words that they have at this point in time to try and deal with those feelings inside. Like that's the only way they they can express how they're feeling about what's going on in their body. Yeah, yeah. It's like I hate myself right now. It's like, no, like yeah, you just feel bad, and that's okay. Right, exactly. Like it doesn't mean you're a terrible person. Like, that's just what they've learned so far.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's what's hard, is like understanding how limited their little brains are. Yeah. And like you have so much more knowledge, and especially like over these past whatever, like five, six years, like we have all learned so much more about emotions, about feelings, about parenting, about processing, all of that stuff. So we we have all this extra knowledge. And I feel like even like the online digital world feels makes you feel like you have more knowledge than you maybe do, even because you've seen the scroll, you've seen the videos or you've seen the thoughts, and oh yeah, that makes sense. And you gain all of this and you realize that your kid doesn't. Yeah, like they don't have the knowledge of how to deal with that or how to process that. And you just expect them like, come on, you should just know this. Like, why don't you know this? Like, right. You just have a dumb little brain. Like, you are still growing and developing and learning. And you're so much further behind than where you are as an adult, but you just you have to learn how to teach and process and educate them into it.
SPEAKER_00Well, and you couple that with uninhibited emotions. Right. Right? Kids just wear it on their sleeve because that's all they know how to do. They're unregulated. So you know exactly, which like again isn't necessarily a bad thing. No, yeah. It's something that adults could probably do more of, is just feel the emotions as they're feeling them. But when they don't know how to regulate them, and now you've combined, yeah, lack of knowledge and understanding with emotions that are right out there on their sleeve, then we're getting hit with that. And it's like, okay, I think I know all of the ways to fix this, but you're not going to give me any air to breathe here in order to tell you how to fix this or understand any of the words that I have to say about it. So what other tool do I have in my bag here to just walk you through this, right?
Preparing For Puberty And Teen Years
SPEAKER_00Such as parenting.
SPEAKER_04I know that we we get a lot of listeners from the what to expect when you're expecting episode. Yep. Um, that is still one of our highest performing episodes that we talk about. And we will always relate things back to those early years.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um, but I'm just letting you know that I am on a pre-pubescent train that we're about to run vlogging full steam into that I'm gonna need to start learning about and I'm gonna need some help processing things. Um I was talking to my wife a bit this morning just about like even women and menstrual cycles and just trying to like realizing how little I know about it all. Right. In a in in the way that it affects their body and hormones and ability to process things and stuff. Um, and then with a daughter who is like pre-puberty and starting to show signs of that, I'm like, I think I need to start learning more about this to be able to understand maybe the mood swings that I'm gonna experience and understand the emotions and the different feelings that she's going to experience coming up. And then you realize with a son also getting ready and pre-pubescent and going into puberty as well, right? And how men and how boys deal with all of those hormones and all of those changes that are going on. And you've gone through it as a kid, and like people talk about those like teenage angsty like periods, right? Where it's like, oh, like whatever mom or dad, and like the rebellious stage and stuff like that. And it's like you you know you've lived, you've experienced, you've felt those things, but you never really understood why any of it, and it's made me want to start diving into learning and understanding that so that I can start to better prepare myself. Um, but we were saying we wish well, we wish, we can't change shit, but like if you had a girl first, then I feel like you're in a good spot, like for you, Joe. Yes, because girls and boys are often like boys are behind, girls start to mature faster. We all know that.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_04Um, so having a son who's two years older than your daughter, we're just running this train down the road together.
SPEAKER_05Double whammy. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04We're like, if we had if it was the other way around, she would have already been through all this. We would have worked through all of that stuff, we would have been into the like moved on from that.
SPEAKER_00More of a one at a time, basically.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, but now it's just like we got twins down the railroad like it's we you're just starting to see signs of like the like outbursts or the big feelings, and you're like, what the fuck is going on? Yeah, yeah. And we're like, oh shit, like we are in for a ride of our lives. Like we thought parenting kids, like, God, like, give me a toddler where you can just tell them what to do, you can sit them in a play pen with a block and let them play. And now you've got teenagers and emotions and all the things.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because there's much less books on teenager. Like, and I think because of all the external influence, too. Like it truly is every scenario is different where it's like babies, yes, every baby is different, and everybody's scenario is going to be a little bit different, but there are things and markers and things you can look for, and right things that will work with most kids, most kids, but yeah, for teenagers, because it's so much of how they've been brought up until now, all of the things that are happening around them that like nobody could tell you how to have that certain conversation with your kid when they bring it up with you at that time, right? Yeah, like yeah, you're just gonna have to wing this one. Oh, right, that's what I said.
SPEAKER_04I'm like, I'm learning how to parent a 13-year-old, like we're figuring this out, buddy. Yeah, um, but that's what I mean. There's got to be some resources out there. So I'm gonna dive in and we'll I'll keep you all posted. But sweet, if there are any dads out there that are dads of teenagers or older kids and you're just listening to this, or maybe you had kids already, and then you're restarting with new kids. I don't know what your situation is. But if you've been through teenage years before, hit me up, give me some advice, give me a book to read, give me a podcast to listen to, give me something, some resources to uh help me prepare me for what's ahead of myself because I feel like uh feel like we're running into something soon. It's a ticking time bomb.
SPEAKER_00And actually think about it too, because I feel like too often, and I've heard this so many times from different dads, and it's this isn't a knock, but you hear it time and time again where it's just like, yeah, it's your teenagers, they're just gonna hate me for the next few years. Right. Did you actually resign yourself to that? I don't think you did. So, like critically think about it, and it's like, what are the things that you actually did with your teenager? What are the things that conversations that you can look back and remember to say, yeah, I started to figure this out about my kid, and like when they were saying this, they were actually meaning that. And it's like there are tools. If you're a parent who cared, you figured some shit out.
SPEAKER_01So like spread that knowledge because that's what we're trying to do here.
SPEAKER_00We're acknowledging the fact that we're dads who give a shit, and like what that means is we're not gonna resort to those answers of like my teenage kid is just it's their teenager, they're gonna hate me right now. No, I'm not gonna accept that. Yeah, they're gonna be emotional, they're gonna have hormones, they're gonna have moments where they do think that they hate me, but they're not gonna, and we're gonna work our way through it. And like, what are the things that we can share with each other to like help through it so that the dad that does feel lost, the dad that does feel like his kids hate them, it's like they don't. Like these these are the reasons why, and like these are the different tools that you can use to connect with your kid instead of just deciding that you're not a good enough parent for them and fade into the background of their life, right? Because that's the worst thing that can happen.
SPEAKER_04I think like one of the things that like I'm worried about and that I'm cognizant of is I think that it starts to become easier to fall fade into the background because they don't need you as much anymore. They can ride their bike on their own, they don't need you to hold them or push them, or they can they can go for walks by themselves, like their their world starts to expand and they can venture out a little bit further in the world. So there is also from like some videos that I've heard, like a like a natural thing of the kid wanting that separation and building that separation for themselves. And as a parent, it could be really easy to be like, cool, like that means I got more time for me, I got more time for myself, and like that's something that I'm wanting to be aware of, where it's like don't want to be overbearing dad that's like over the shoulder all the time, but I also want to still be present and in their lives and
Staying Present As Kids Need You Less
SPEAKER_04stuff through that. So I feel very much like I'm on like you're having a newborn baby almost. Like it we are very much on the cusp of an entire new phase of parenting that we haven't experienced yet. And it's like, man, I feel so equipped to have a baby again, right? But not for this right now.
SPEAKER_01The uncharented territory, and we're sniffed, so we can't have a baby again.
SPEAKER_05So yeah, it's interesting because like you think about right now the amount of hours you have with your kids, like with our work schedules and stuff like that. There's like two, three hours a day. Right. Like, especially with younger kids who are going to bed at like eight. I have like two or three hours with the kids. Yeah. Thankfully, right now it's like I I am though during those times, I'm dad, and like they're all about me. But yeah, when they're a teenager, those two and three hours, like maybe it's a few more hours because they're up later. But like chances are you don't even see them, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. So yeah, that is a little nerve-wracking to think about.
SPEAKER_00But it and it is on us as the parent, where it's like, yeah, you think about that stuff critically now, and it's like that's what happened with me and my parents. Like they faded into the background of my life. In my late, like mid-later teenage years, I'd get home, maybe say hi, and then I'd be in my room. Right. And like playing video games, doing whatever I'm doing. Like, I would maybe get 10 to 10 minutes to a half an hour of FaceTime with my dad per day. And like we'd maybe get the weekend, the odd weekend where we'd do whatever, throwing wood together or work on something where it would be an hour or two, but because we weren't putting in any time, I was thinking about this the other day where it's like, I don't remember meaningful conversations with my dad during those times. Right. I learned a lot from him, and like I I attribute the fact that I got into the trades working with my hands because of working with him. But I don't remember meaningful conversations during those times. We were just working and it was just doing stuff together. Yeah. So it's like because we weren't putting in the time in the in the space in between, any of the quality time we did have, it didn't have didn't end up having much meaning to it either.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Where and then now looking back, it's like you realize how much you did need or how much I wish I had a parent that was that much more involved. Because life did just keep getting harder. And without someone there to help you hold your hand along the way, it's like sure they are gonna want to push for their independence and get away from you, and you need to be able to give them that space to breathe so that they do come back, but at the same time, like they're gonna wanna because they're gonna come to the same spot that we all did, where it's like, what the fuck? Like I was going through school and I was told that if I did all these right things, everything's gonna be easy breezy. Adult taking is shitty.
SPEAKER_05That's what I try to tell my kids all the time. It's like, you don't want this, you don't want this, just soak it up. That's it. Just live the dream, go to the backyard, have zero cares in the world.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I drove by the high school in the like the physic class outside playing Ultimate Frisbee. And in my mind, I was like, wow, like that would be so free to just have a gym class and play Ultimate Frisbee for an hour. Like, oh my god, the sun on your face, yeah, the like running in the grass, like that would feel so good right now. Yeah, like all that said, like there have already been some great moments with the kids getting older.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um, and like as you were talking about that, realizing, like at the cottage putting the docks in with my son, and like him like out in the water helping me and standing on the dock and helping me line things up and working together. There was like a really cool moment doing that together. Yeah, um, and even with them staying up a little bit later and watching a TV show together and having those conversations. Like it there are there are good moments. I think it's just the the hormonal outbursts that I'm like most scared about.
SPEAKER_05It's like learning your place again, yeah. Yeah, where you fit, yeah.
SPEAKER_04It's how to give them space, but then not too much space and what that balance is. Amy McMurray, you are listening to this. I know you are. Your kids are grown, and you're an amazing listener who supports this. I need your advice, Amy. Prepare me in all the ways I can because your kids seem like they're great. I mean, from all I can see, lovely, fantastic kids.
SPEAKER_00And that was gonna be my follow-up point. Again, I haven't gone through this. My kids are nine and six, but like also don't discount the little moments where it's like sometimes it is like maybe it is only 20 minutes you had with your kid that day, but maybe it was 20 minutes of sitting down on the couch and having a meaningful conversation. Maybe it was 20 minutes at the end of the night putting them down to bed where you're actually able to have a moment with them and talk. Like those are incredibly impactful. So don't beat yourself up when you don't have these grand memories that you're creating for hours of a of a day, but like, yeah, also give those moments their full attention that they deserve to.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Well those those theaters, they need to uh some of those seats are looking pretty haggard. Oh, yeah. I don't know if you've noticed, but we've been through some stuff. Yeah, it's not very luxurious anymore. No, no, no. It's more like couch on the side of the road than you've sat down on.