The Real Dad Podcast
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The Real Dad Podcast
Navigating Tough Parenting Moments
What are some ways do you think that you can help build resilience in a kid or get them to do hard things? The ice bucket challenge If you made it like a game, how long can you stick your hand in a bucket of cold ice for?
Speaker 2:I don't know If my kids aren't getting snacks or paid for whatever it is that they're doing. They don't do s***.
Speaker 1:If you got some time to relax your mind, come have breakfast with the Real Dad Podcast. Welcome to the Real Dad Podcast. I'm Dave and I don't handle weed very well, oh that's true I haven't had a great weed experience. Most of it turns into vomiting for me.
Speaker 3:Oh well, we'll fix that. That can confirm one too many puffs. Yeah, uh, I am joey and uh, my smile is fake because my front teeth have been knocked out two times whoa yep, I'm learning all the new things.
Speaker 2:I think we knew that.
Speaker 3:I didn't know that the people should know it. But that's my first time level level that fell and hit him.
Speaker 2:Second time On TV.
Speaker 3:Was that on TV? That was pre-TV, pre-tv, yeah.
Speaker 1:John Abraham, who might be a listener here. Actually he's got a little daughter and a friend of ours.
Speaker 3:He played a part. It wasn't his fault, but he played a part, wow.
Speaker 1:See, that's very Joey to not his thing.
Speaker 3:He didn't know the level was up there and he was going to hit me directly in the fucking tooth.
Speaker 2:My name is Mark and I'm afraid that I'm becoming a diabetic because my toe hurts severely. Oh For, like two since February. What month was it Is that gout Single toe? I don't know if it is gout, but I asked ChatGPT.
Speaker 1:Oh, you shouldn't have asked for health advice. Well, listen.
Speaker 2:Hatch EPT is saving way better than Google, Way better than Google Saving lives.
Speaker 4:It? Is it diagnosed?
Speaker 2:like so many people, famous people's problems, so I tried it Just the famous people yeah. And it gave me a situation. I can't pronounce the word Okay.
Speaker 4:I don't know what it is.
Speaker 2:Okay, Gout was on there, but it didn't.
Speaker 1:it didn't hit like what I'm saying is it the toe or is it like the in between? Like the plantar fasciitis.
Speaker 2:Well, this is the thing it's literally right here, okay, but if I touch it it doesn't hurt, like there's no like point of pain. But if I go to like bend it the wrong way or like put pressure on it, right, it's like that it wants to give out on me okay, if we got any doctors listening. No doctors listening. Come on, what are you assuming?
Speaker 3:With a doctor content Doctors and pediatricians. We're getting stuck on our fun facts again guys, you're a fucking doctor.
Speaker 2:Is all your fun facts going to be. You went to med school.
Speaker 4:No, our client right now is a foot doctor oh, that's true, oh Will.
Speaker 1:Jacobs Jacob.
Speaker 4:Will Jacob. What do you mean? Shout out Jacob. What do you mean? Come to site, they're the ones that are feeding us really well too, you'll love them.
Speaker 3:You got a foot doctor in your back pocket.
Speaker 2:Come on over, I need this. The stars are aligning, absolutely All right. Who the fuck are?
Speaker 4:you. I'm feeling a little uncomfortable because I don't have socks on. It was a bad move.
Speaker 1:I specifically went't have socks on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was a bad move, I filmed I specifically went and put socks on because I didn't want my feet to be.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that might get us more like a little bit naked right now.
Speaker 1:Brian's toes could get us some more views though he's hiding his toes.
Speaker 3:He's under a shitty coffee table, uh uh, fun fact.
Speaker 4:Uh, the first time I made out with my wife, I bruised her lip. You went in hard yeah a little too much, a little too much hot and heavy she makes fun of me to this day. Nice uh, but it was great uh. I also asked my kids.
Speaker 3:But you also made her climax, so it's all fine.
Speaker 4:Eventually.
Speaker 2:Not the first time we made out.
Speaker 4:I also asked my kids a fun fact about me.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a good one, that's a great idea.
Speaker 4:My oldest son said that I love playing video games with him. That's a fun fact that I love playing video games with him.
Speaker 3:That's a fun fact.
Speaker 4:And my daughter said that I will always love my beautiful daughter.
Speaker 2:I love that.
Speaker 4:True facts, fun fact, and that was it. The youngest doesn't really.
Speaker 1:He was just rolling around on the bed, although I did see a super cute Mother's Day clip I think it was on your wife's ig and he was carrying the breakfast in bed table and when, like the tray, is as big as he is long like he was so cute to watch him carry it. It made me think of the other clip, when there's like the kid carrying the coffee mug and then he starts to spill it, and then it starts to spill more, like oh no, oh no, and it just like ends up dumping it all.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, that happened, he's accused.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's adorable well, I don't know what we're talking about.
Speaker 1:Let's um, I thought I would start things off, okay, um, with an apology to my daughter.
Speaker 2:Okay, last week I came down pretty hard on her for swimming Last week, the week before that.
Speaker 1:No, it was mainly last week about the swimming lessons.
Speaker 4:Did she redeem herself?
Speaker 1:Today was swimming lessons. She crushed it Really.
Speaker 2:She crushed it.
Speaker 1:So I think sometimes that little 10-minute, 5-minute win that a kid can get can carry over to the next week. Now we do have a long weekend coming up, yeah, so we'll see, because there won't be swimming lessons next Monday, so we'll have a gap, so we'll see if this trend carries on or not.
Speaker 1:I was thinking about it and like, um, we might get a chance to talk on BT about father's day and stuff, and I was like thinking about this story and how like the cycle of parenting goes, how like you do something amazing as a parent and you think you've conquered this whole parenting thing, you've cracked the code. Let's write a book. I know how to parent.
Speaker 3:Now I wrote a book once this is incredible.
Speaker 1:Uh, it's a great book. Princess peony, very good book. Lots of people love the book that's all right you need to dial that back, put your hand.
Speaker 3:We're not going down that road. We just lost so many listeners you think that you have nailed parenting.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, you've got it all under control, all for it to be flipped up on side your head and then you have no idea what you're doing. Yeah, everything you've been doing is a complete failure. Why have like, have I parented wrong for all of these years? And then they go and give you another beautiful moment and you're like I've got it, and then you're just back on the roller coaster of the ups and downs of parenting you win some you'll lose some and you're just along for the ride you lose more than you win
Speaker 2:kids know how to be up. We blame it on, like the, my, my wife is a second born and I am I'm a weird breed, like a hybrid. Yeah, I was the first born for my mom but I was born into like this weird spaghetti blended family. So I know what it's like to be firstborn, but I also know what it's like to be a middle child I'm completely forgotten about, right. So it's funny because my daughter firstborn and she'd think, and robin will just be like chirping, whatever, and she'd be like that's some firstborn energy.
Speaker 3:I'm like, hey, bite your tongue right there my son who would literally like light the house on fire. I'm like that's some secondborn energy.
Speaker 2:I'm like hey, bite your tongue right there. And then my son who would literally like light the house on fire. I'm like that's some secondborn energy right there. I saw a clip today.
Speaker 3:That was, if you had to do something illegal, which one of your kids would you call, and why is it your secondborn? I love that it would be Coop for sure. We had a big win and we're shouting out wins, so let's talk about wins.
Speaker 4:Okay, let's go.
Speaker 3:We've been on a dentistry journey with my daughter, so she had to do the expander pre-Christmas for her teeth to widen them out, and she has started down the road of headgear. So this was the thing that she was the most scared of. Thankfully, she's not having to do all day headgear, so she's not having to wear this during the day, it's just at nighttime I didn't know that was still a thing still a thing.
Speaker 3:So it's like full-on head, so it's not the way that it used to be or the way that we got to see it in sitcoms. So now it's just a band that goes across basically the top of their neck and then it's just two straps that come forward, but then the device is still just very much metal wires. It hooks into their mouth and there's two metal wires that come out and hook on, so it's very uncomfortable and very intrusive. Um, the experience wasn't great at the orthodontist, so this was the first also appointment that I missed, uh, that I wasn't there for, so it was just my wife and murph that went to the appointment. Better, same or worse, worse, oh god yeah. So I, like we talked about it before like I have a calming presence and I will give meg the shadow ray at the gate. She did incredible with it, especially under the circumstances. So the uh, I don't know what they're called actually the, the person, who actually did the work?
Speaker 3:the hygienist maybe, but I don't think they're hygienist. I don't know how it works. But anyways, there's like the head orthodontist, but he comes in at the end and kind of oversees the work that has been done. Classic. But the person, yeah, but the person who was doing.
Speaker 3:The work was not great with kids in my opinion, so she was very much sit down, be quiet. Like she came over, murph was already emotional, like had some tears and she's like why are you crying? This is gonna be're fine, stop crying, like just immediately trying to shut down her emotions, rather than being like I can see that you're crying, listen, you're in a safe space. This is what we're going to be doing today. Murph said what's it going to feel like? And she was like I don't know. And that was all she said.
Speaker 3:And then she carried on with her work and being very rough with her work, like just kind of pulling it in and out, and she's like her theory is kind of sound. She was just wanted to get it over with for murph because she sees that she was emotional. But murph is the type of kid like almost every kid on the planet as far as I'm concerned, if you tell them what you're doing and even just make up what it's going to feel like, right then it gives them a sense of calm. But she very much was just like I'm here to just do my job and this kid's gonna have to deal with it. So that didn't start things off well for the head girl. I would end that lady's life so we did.
Speaker 2:No, I wouldn't end the lady's life we did jump ahead in the story.
Speaker 3:We're gonna jump ahead for a second because mag made a phone call today that she was very much not looking forward to, because she, we talked about it and I'm like you just need to call to make sure we don't get that lady again. Um, so she was very much not looking forward to making that phone call, thinking that she's going to get some pushback. She made the call today. It went extremely well.
Speaker 3:The receptionist was like yep, no problem, I put it on her file to not work with that person again so that was super easy, so big win there I'm not going to doubt that it wasn't um, but anyways, the win has been, I think, how Meg and I have handled it and I've been really proud of that process. Um, because that did not start off this process well that Murph was already not looking forward to Um. So then that first night she was already kind of scared, not really looking forward to very emotional getting it on there. Uh, she made it till about 10 o'clock before she woke up and just wanted the headgear off. She was all done with it and it was kind of one of those moments because Meg had gone out that night. So she dealt with the appointment, which was very stressful. She went out for the evening with her girlfriends.
Speaker 3:I dealt with the evening Um, so, but I just really enjoyed how I dealt with it, cause I just basically sat down with her, just gave her all the encouragements for how well she had done, cause she kept it on there for two hours. She was super brave, she did awesome with it and I just she was just really emotional. She was like, are you mad at me for not doing it? I was like, babe, absolutely not. That is the last thing on my mind right now. I couldn't be more proud of you in this moment and how long you lasted here. And she's like can we please just take it off? I was like, absolutely, we're following your lead here, babe. So, yes, obviously we want to leave it on all night and we want to adjust your teeth, but we're not going to make this a terrible experience for you. You're not trapped in this cage that we're not going to take off of you.
Speaker 3:So we took it off of her and then each night has kind of been a bit the same, but she's been pushing herself to keep it on a bit longer, which has been awesome, like she's just been as she goes down. And night two, she cried a little bit less putting it on by night three, she's fine putting it on. So now we're to the point where she can get it on there, no problem, and her mindset is very much okay, how long can I go? Tonight? And she was like now I'm gonna make it to 12 o'clock, like I'm gonna see 1200 before I wake up and have you guys take this off.
Speaker 3:And we've just been continually just building her up and encouraging her when I did have that little seed that dropped in that first night when she wasn't able to push past 10 o'clock where I was like man, like do I just need to be that almost kind of touching back to what we talked about around a previous gasp, like toughen up of, like nope, I need to make sure you push through this because to prove to yourself that you can do hard things right. But I think you can do that a right way in a wrong way, and I think, anyways, that we're doing that the right way to encourage her, that she is proving to herself that she can do hard things, just because she's not doing it the perfect way the first time doesn't have to happen all at once, exactly like you don't have to have instructions from them as to how long she needs to wear it for.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so that was the other part, like it can be very daunting for kids, so they tried to ask those questions again. The orthodontist, he's fantastic. Uh, I can't say enough good things about him and how he handles things, but he also doesn't want to commit to anything. Um, but he said as my Meg, my wife, was like are we looking at like weeks? Are we looking at a month?
Speaker 1:Like just give me something here, and he's like two months but as far as like the nightly like, did they say that she needs to wear it all night long, or did they give you guys like the ability to say like it's okay if it's gonna take some time again.
Speaker 3:So this was the person doing the work was very much. It has to be on all night. Every night he came through and was like start slow. Like if you can get a couple hours over, we'll start. There's like holes that you hook it on to. So as you put it on more holes, it's putting more pressure on the teeth, cause that's what it's doing is pushing her top teeth all backwards to bring her front teeth back, is the idea here. Um, so he said start super slow. We're going to start on hole number two, so it's barely putting any pressure at all. Um, and then we'll just slowly work our way back. He's really good with the kids and explaining that kind of stuff, um, so we've just been trying to transfer that to murph that's awesome.
Speaker 3:Prep her for that, push that back, um, yeah, so I think that we've been handling it really well. It's been working really well with murph to get her more comfortable with it, to get over these stages because I am very much like I have to fight that urge to try to push her through something right. I'm like no, we need to just be encouraging and follow her lead on this, because too often I think that would happen in a older generation style of parenting, to be like I just need to push my kid through this and then they'll be fine yeah, do you?
Speaker 2:do you have like a catch? Or like, how do you? Because I find myself in similar situations where I'm like, oh my god, you like, you have to do this. You have to do this in the grand scheme. I don In the grand scheme, I don't really care and I don't like my kid being upset, but there is that thin line there. I don't want to say you're lucky, but it's very impressive that Murph is like okay, I'm going to do this now.
Speaker 2:And she has that drive my kid would shut down and be like oh come on. And.
Speaker 3:I think that has come like my kid would shut down and be like, oh, come on. And I think that has come like with this certain circumstance, it has come from following her lead from that first night, because I could see that of it could have gone either way, and it could have gone either way even with me, like um, to not say that, like I would have reacted that way on any given day if I was having a really bad day that day.
Speaker 1:I could have made the choice to try to probably one they did.
Speaker 3:Yes, very much so, and I was watching the game on mute in the basement so that I could hear her door open, and it was a lot of fun.
Speaker 3:Um, but yes, if I was in a bad headspace, that could have, I could have steered in either direction there because, I am the type where I can lean that way of like I'm just gonna push you through this and do everything we can to make sure that stays on all night, because that's what the doctor has said is the effective way of making this work. But yeah, I just I had that step back and take a breath moment because she was getting kind of hyped up and I could see her the real emotion coming out. It wasn't just this is uncomfortable and I want it off now. I could see it being like no, this is having an effect on you right now, like you can't sleep and you can't see an end in sight yet, because this is day one.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so we need to take a breath and you need to realize this is still your choice here. Like this is something we're doing for aesthetics one. Two, she can't bite something, so like she can't bite an apple because her overbite is too far forward. Um, so it's like there is a practical reason we're doing this. Babe. It's also for that look, because you want your teeth.
Speaker 3:To come back, she's made mention of like I just want to have a normal smile.
Speaker 3:So it's like okay, you are motivated to do this for yourself, but you, we are going to follow your lead on it um, and it's been going really well and we've just been trying to stay in that corner of encourage her through it, follow her lead.
Speaker 3:If and that's what I told her too is like yeah, I love she's fantastic and like she just has a good understanding of herself and us, but she's had that, are you going to get mad at me and are you disappointed that I'm not doing it yet and then we're just been staying completely on the side of absolutely not. That's never going to happen. We are following your lead and you've been crushing it every night and that's been helping her to be like okay, I'm gonna get a step farther, step farther for herself. And that's what I'm trying to kind of drive in there. Like don't do it for us, do it for yourself and prove it to yourself that you can do it. And I think it's been being effective. Like you started the soft day, we'll see what tonight brings right. Like, yeah, maybe she doesn't even get it on tonight, but either way, like I think that's the approach to take I a couple things, like one.
Speaker 1:I think it's really cool. I haven't heard you say many times in your life that you're proud of yourself or something so for you to like sit there and acknowledge and give yourself props for that, I think is like huge. So like I, I see a lot of growth in you in that. That makes me emotional for some reason, I don't know why you know me for a long time.
Speaker 3:Nobody's surprised by that. But I.
Speaker 1:I think that's really cool, but the second thing that kind of noted from that is that you are giving her control. Yeah, where I think and circumstances in my life, looking back over them, where the situation with our kid had maybe gone a different route, it's often when they feel like they don't have a choice and they're out of control. So, by you saying that you're following her lead is very interesting and I think it's something that you guys have built up to being able to do as well. Um, but I think that gives her control and gives her power in that circumstance so that she can really feel the win. Yes, because it's her win. Like she is choosing to go a little bit more.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's choosing that. So when she gets that, you can feel the accomplishment of that win. Yeah, but I think there's also, like you, like you said, there's two different ways that you can take something where you can look at that as a loss. We didn't get through the whole night, babe. You know, maybe next, maybe next night, you'll get a little like you'll be able to do it like the whole thing like yeah it's uh what you determine the win to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah and I respect you for saying that it could have gone either way too because, like some days you're right, like some days you're all tied up and you're doing something else, and then you catch something like you're like, oh my gosh, like we just just did all this thing, we spent all this money. We need to make this a priority kind of thing and build this habit. Yeah, I mean, I commend you for it. I'm over here taking notes. Robin sent me a thing, actually that reminds me. It said when someone's drowning, it's not the time to teach them how to swim, and that's oh I love a good damn, that's a good line it is, though that's a good freaking, that's what
Speaker 2:I was thinking about when, uh, when, you were telling your story there like it's so true, so true yeah, 100 and like to on that point.
Speaker 3:So then we had a mini moment this morning. That kind of examples. That too, I think dave of that, that control piece. So kids going off to school, as we all know, can be the worst time of the day, every single day um, this morning, yeah, another one.
Speaker 1:It's the worst. There's a lot of them.
Speaker 3:Parenting is good parenting is a choice. Um, so they meg offered up to walk to school, murph. Hell yeah, let's walk to school, coop Hard, no, not walking to school. Did he take his tractor, matt?
Speaker 4:takes his tractor sometimes that sounds fun though.
Speaker 3:That's sweet. Coop decided to absolutely turn off his listening ears beyond that point. So now we've spent the next five minutes trying to just get Coop to listen to us and do the things that he needs to do to go to school. Now there's no time to walk to school, so walk to school. So now we have to break it to Murph that walking to school is no longer an option.
Speaker 3:And she has, yeah, and she has to put socks on that. She didn't have socks on, so now she doesn't get to do the things she wanted to do with walking to school. So she lost the control on that. She has to put socks on, which she really didn't want to do. And now you see the emotions start to come up and now she's getting into that piece where she's repeating herself instead of listening and just shutting down. So we sat through that as best we could, me trying to keep calm, kind of talking her through the fact that you can't walk to school now, definitely because school's about to start and you gotta drive, like that's the only way you're getting there. Um, but we had a little moment, it was interesting and that got her kind of calm and she's like well, can you at least pick me up and carry me to the car, and I was like a hundred percent, I can pick you up and carry you to the car.
Speaker 3:Gives her a win picked her up, carried her by the time we got to the car. We're laughing and giggling about putting her in and missing a joke. Right, like and recognizing those moments where you see your kids start to come out of it and this is the thing that meg and I have talked about, a bunch that we both struggle with, but meg has openly talked about her struggle with it where she'll still be stuck in that fight. Right, so you see your kid come out of it but you're still like there's almost this piece of like fuck you you don't get to come out of it like you.
Speaker 3:Just put me through hell for the last 15 minutes but if you can take the breath and come out of it with them, yeah, I laughed with her, got her into the car. Now they're off and having a good day, right when it can be so easy to be like, fuck, just get in the car, close the door, go to school or just like come out of it with them. They're over it, I'm over it. Get on with your day.
Speaker 1:Well, because it's just like you said, like nothing's going her way.
Speaker 2:She got no's and then you throw another. It just builds the disappointment and sadness in them, right? Yeah, how was her day at school after that, like when you?
Speaker 3:picked her up. From what I know, had a great day, yeah, so she had a test today which went well, her financial literacy test in grade two okay, which is just adding up loonies and quarters and hey man but, I was like wow, great, you're labeling it and I love that you're labeling it. That, um. But yeah, she got her clothes all dirty. She had a fantastic day today so what do you think?
Speaker 1:because I think that she will probably be a more resilient for going through this headgear, hardship and be she'll be grateful that you did it like. It's one of those things that's hard right now, but when she's older it'll be like thank you so much for doing that like. But what are some ways? Do you think that you can help build resilience in a kid or get them to do hard things the ice bucket challenge that are oh, that's a good thing that aren't like?
Speaker 1:in like dire circumstances, like taking them to an event that's already done or having to do headgear the ice bucket challenge that's a good thing. That aren't like in like dire circumstances, like taking them to an event that's already done or having to do headgear the ice bucket challenge that's a good idea.
Speaker 2:Like a cold plunge wasn't my idea it was like mls from years. No, I know, but like, because I was wondering that like if you like, like it did.
Speaker 1:It made it like a game like how long can you stick your hand in a bucket of like cold ice for where it's getting them comfortable with pain, getting them to do something hard, but not in a circumstance that is, we need to put our shoes on for school, like how can you teach your kids how to do hard things?
Speaker 3:one thing that popped in my head is it may be starting there, right? Is it celebrating that win? Like, yes, sure, that isn't a hard thing to do, but if they start to be able to do those things that are difficult to navigate for them, it's hard for a kid to listen to their parents and get their shit on and get to school, but if, instead, you're able to celebrate it after the fact I'm so glad you got all your stuff on and we're at school on time today like celebrating even those little wins can start to build up, at least that they show them that they're winning, regardless of how. I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 2:My kids aren't getting snacks or paid for whatever it is that they're doing. They don't do shit. Like I'm at a point now where, like I'm, like you are bored, you are not hungry, no, you cannot have a fucking snack. It is 8, 15 in the morning.
Speaker 4:go to school like that's like yeah, when it comes to emotional intelligence, their memory is so short, like it's, they don't remember that yesterday went great, it's like it's it just. It's just little fires everywhere. When you're a parent, it doesn't matter how yesterday went, they won't remember, so I don't know.
Speaker 3:Until they get to a certain age.
Speaker 4:Yeah, at this age I'm still waiting, guys. Dave, let us know when that happens.
Speaker 2:It's just, I think it comes down down. You have to celebrate with them and you have to like lose with them without losing your patience, and that's, I think that's the hardest like for for me it's for me, it's bedtime.
Speaker 2:I'm just like, I'm just not not good not about it, the whole bedtime routine, because I wasn't like I didn't really get a routine. It was like go brush your teeth, no cable, and your teeth are going to fall out Right. And then and that's how I parent and I was like no dude, like we need to brush their fricking teeth. So it's, it's a lot of response. It's like giving the responsibility, but with the intention of them gaining it, not out of laziness, right? Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:A little Maybe.
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 4:I was just saying like, my point was just that like it's uh, it's very hard, like if you think you've got something figured out with your kids, all it takes is one tantrum over that thing Right For it to feel like you've made no progress. Just goes back to zero again.
Speaker 1:I went down a dark hole on the weekend of like same. What have we even done with these?
Speaker 3:kids same same, fucking same.
Speaker 1:Oh my god yes yeah, we celebrated, it was a full moon weekend we celebrated mother's day on saturday because because Sunday was going to be a busy day, so we just Saturday was going to be the easier day to do it.
Speaker 1:So there's like a few things like the kids wanted to, my daughter wanted to make pancakes for my wife, so kind of let her do that. She ended up not doing the greatest job with the pancakes, but then her, my wife and I were sitting there and we're having mimosas and you're feeling good and nice little morning drink and the kids were trying to play a video game together and it wasn't working out and my son kind of had a meltdown about it. Everything escalated and we're like what the heck's going on? And it was one of those moments of like dude, you're 12 years old, why are you having a freak out about the stupidest thing on your mom's? Like this is mother's day, like this is the day we told you, just get your shit together and I'm sitting there just like what did we do wrong over all these years?
Speaker 1:but then my parents came over and I was chatting with them like your kids are just so great. I was like, are you fucking kidding me?
Speaker 3:I didn't say that to my parents, but I was was like are you kidding me, are?
Speaker 1:you for real right now. And they were just like just look how happy they are. It's like, yes, and like when my parents came over, the kids were full of energy and they were jumping all over the place going nuts and I'm like this is you as a kid. They're like but look how happy they are, like they're genuinely happy kids. You're doing something right and you're doing something well. Yeah, kids just aren't always that happy. I was like it gave me that little moment of perspective and then, of course, they did something else. I'm like, no fuck, we're screwed. What are we doing? Man?
Speaker 2:um, robin had her like bachelorette, like weekend right getaway, and so I'm like on daddy daycare, I put I think I was pissed because I would like normally I just wing it like what are we gonna do for dinner? I don't know, I'll figure something out. Yeah, like they love tacos, so thursday, I made sure that we had taco stuff. We're gonna do a movie night. I had, we had the. I had everything that they wanted. I had it pop pop, pop, pop, pop pop.
Speaker 2:Then saturday um, my son has swimming lessons, okay. So it's like, and it's a stupid time at 11 o'clock in the morning, when your kids wake up at the crack ass of dawn, what are you gonna do all morning? So we made like a whole morning out of like stuff. We went to to tim hortons and we went to whatever it is. We go to the dollar store because we're going to hand make these gifts for Mother's Day. Kids are pissed off because mom wasn't there on Friday. They woke up, they thought Saturday was Mother's Day, so I'd put that fire out. Then I'm like my daughter, I'm trying to deal with my son who, like I don't even know what he drank.
Speaker 4:But he was just not my son it was the red food diet.
Speaker 2:I don't know what it was slipped into his diet, but it like the friday night. They're like can we have a movie night, can we have a movie night? I'm like it's a movie or fire, which one do you want to do? And I prefer the fire because when they're outside they get tired really easily and so they're like oh, movie night, movie night. I'm like, okay, now I gotta. Now I gotta deal with this mike tyson and jake paul situation because they can't decide on a movie that they want to watch. Anyways, put that fire out.
Speaker 2:My son wants to go to bed. I do lay downs with him. I end up passing out with my daughter wake up super early. We do all the morning running around. We go to the dollar store my daughter's job. I said like look at me in the eyes, can you get your brother's um swim bag ready for? Because they share a swim bag, whatever. She's like yep, no problem. Like do you know what? Everything? Yes, I know where everything is. I'm like great, because I have no idea.
Speaker 2:So she goes and gets the thing we get to, the thing we get to, into the change room. I'm changing. He's like where's my son shirt or my swim shirt? And I would like look at aubrey and I'll be like, and I was like, oh fuck, I'm the adult here, whoops. So then, maverick, my son, he's like. He's like I'm not going swimming without my swim shirt. I'm like, yeah, you are. He's like, no, I'm not going swimming without my swim shirt. I'm like, yeah, you are. He's like no, I'm not. And I was like you 100,. I promise you, bud, you're going swimming without your shirt on and I want to see all the things. I want the jumps, I want your hands off the thing, whatever. He's like literally looks at me and goes I'm not going in that pool without my swim shirt.
Speaker 2:Do you hear the words literally? So I'm like looking at aubrey dude, I look at aubrey and I was like I was like really you forgot the swim shirt. And then she's like think. And then it was one of those times where I'm like you are a piece of shit, asshole. She's for context, she's seven years old and I'm mad at her. I'm not mad.
Speaker 3:You're mad at the situation.
Speaker 2:No, I'm pissed off at this seven-year-old, because how dare her forget to? Pack her brother's swim shirt, when I've been taking him to swimming lessons for months, anyways.
Speaker 1:You started this off by shit-talking the kids. It's looking worse and worse that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:I was like inspired by how you handle the situation, because I'm in this moment and I'm just like are you fucking serious? You forgot his shirt. You honestly forgot his shirt. I didn't say it like that, but that's how it sounded in my head, yeah, so, anyways, we go in, we go into the thing and we're sitting on the thing and my son is the worst swimmer of all time and somehow he's bullied his instructor. He got like the worst instructor of all time, and so this instructor oh this, is the building forts.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they just build forts out of the swim thing.
Speaker 2:And all the other instructors call him out and they're like hey, like hey, man, what are you doing?
Speaker 3:building forts, you're gonna teach that kid how to swim exactly, and I'm like thank you 17 year old, pick on this guy a little bit, would you?
Speaker 2:because my three-year-old seems to be doing a good job. So then this, this guy comes around. He goes hey, man, can you like? My son doesn't like people, like he needs like a two or three like good evenings together before he opens up. So this guy comes up, he goes hey, buddy, like can you jump? And he just stares and he goes no. And then he's like can you put your, blow your bubbles? And he's like no. And then, like his instructor's like I got this.
Speaker 1:So the guy goes like we can build a mean fort well, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then so he's like can you do all the things? And he does all the things. When it's just him and the instructor, it's like they've built really good rapport. Yeah, but like he's still swimming and holding on to the edges, and so, anyways, I'm sitting with my daughters on my lap. It's like can we play ice by? I was like, no, I really want to watch your brother swim. Like I really want to watch your brother swim like.
Speaker 3:I really want to make sure that he's like he's giving the college try here because, like this is, your snacks are depending on it. You have no idea what's riding on this swimming lesson but to her she's like this isn't fair.
Speaker 2:This isn't fair and I was just like, can you shut the fuck up so I can watch your brother swim? Like just sit there and be bored.
Speaker 3:The thing is 15 minutes like it's 15 minutes anyways, there's another dad fail I didn't say that to her, obviously, but that's how it sounded in my head.
Speaker 2:So then I'm like okay, we're going to the dollar store and we're going to just get the stuff that we need to make mother's day presents. So we get to the dollar store and this is a 50 dollar dollar store trip.
Speaker 1:He left with the trampoline, didn't you, I suppose?
Speaker 2:But we got a whole bunch of stuff and we're leaving and my son is having a temper tantrum Like I had to pick him up because he couldn't get a stuffed animal shaped like a dinosaur holding a rose.
Speaker 1:That's what he wanted. That's the thing that sounds pretty sweet. That's the hill he wanted to die on, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm like dude, they don't have it. Man, they don't have it oh he didn't see this thing.
Speaker 3:He wanted it.
Speaker 2:He made it up, he tachypoteed this fucking thing.
Speaker 4:I thought it was like something at the checkout.
Speaker 2:No, check, no, no, okay, okay, he literally that's what he wanted to give his mom, for mother's day was a stuffed animal of a dinosaur holding a rose.
Speaker 4:So he wanted you to perform a miracle.
Speaker 2:Basically, and I'm like bro, they don't have that here we'll look on amazon or like. We'll look on amazon like I don't know, but we like it's not here like it's on etsy for sure, and my daughter's like just trying to help. I'm really gonna like apologize to her when I get home, but she she was like. She's like like mav, they have moose, they have. I'm like can you shut the fuck up so we can go? I'm not buying anything else, I'm not just doing anything out of the damn store.
Speaker 2:You are not helping right now, stop it. So pick the kid up, hold the kid's hands, and then this 13 year old snot nose kid that works at the cashier. I'm trying to maneuver these very, very thin aisles and you can tell that he's getting buzzed over the like the intercom. But he's me in a hurry and I can't go any faster than I'm going. So, anyways, I hear him yell to somebody. He's like I'm trying to get there. And I was like oh, buddy, you're almost old enough for me to take out my ring.
Speaker 3:Oh man, If your name's.
Speaker 2:Cam, you're going out, You're going out.
Speaker 4:I got a steel stud in the truck. Honestly, for context, I used to beat our co-op kid with a broomstick.
Speaker 2:Anyways. So then we get to like this is a Super Bowl. We get home, we're all excited, we're amped up, we're going to do the thing they want, nothing to do with this they want nothing to do with this, but everything came from my daughter's class. My daughter learned how to do this craft in art class. Right, and that was her thing. She's gonna teach us how to do it. I'm fifty dollars in the red here laid out on the kitchen table all.
Speaker 2:I even bought a fucking glue gun and glue for this. Yeah and glue, it's sitting out there, I'm ready to roll. And they're like we're just not feeling it.
Speaker 1:We kind of had a big day out there.
Speaker 2:A lot happened for us.
Speaker 3:I don't know if you were there Dad but, we were putting on a show, a get home.
Speaker 2:This is what they want Chakootery for lunch. Yeah, oh wow.
Speaker 4:Chakootery. Oh wow, shakuri, I like that for them.
Speaker 3:Robin, what are you doing? She set you up to fail with that one Is charcuterie a lunchable.
Speaker 4:No, because the food is a lunchable. That's what they wanted, they got kielbasa cheese and aged cucumber.
Speaker 2:I was like did you say shakuri? How do you even know how to pronounce?
Speaker 3:that right.
Speaker 2:I want a minimum four cheeses. Put them on a cutting board, live edge, please.
Speaker 1:So, anyways.
Speaker 2:I'm talking to Robin briefly and she's like oh, how did it go? Did you bring it? Because I told her I'm like Saturday's going to be such a nice day. We're going to spend the whole day outside. I'm going gonna mow the lawn. Kids are gonna play. It's gonna be awesome. There was, my lawn still looks like shit. There's no lawn mowing. We started after I made their little dollar store version of charcuterie boards. I think it was probably one o'clock when we started. I didn't finish arts and crafts until five. I drove, I jumped right into making them their tacos, yeah, and then they were pissed off because the tacos didn't taste like mom makes them. I was so mad and then Robin called. She's like oh, I've had the best day. I'm like I'm so happy for you. She's like can I face down the kids? I was like absolutely not. That will ruin your. You are going to miss them for two straight days and you are not seeing them.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, but that's not happening, yeah, but you just, you have a day where you're like what have we done? Who have we raised? What are these children? Dude? I like?
Speaker 2:it was so bad that ron came home and like she came home on sunday and then we went to her parents place like things. So it was like the kids were exhausted, stuff, but like on the way home it was later, so that they ended up like wanting to had a nap and then it was like she didn't get to experience the fuckery that I like. That I think then today, like when the thing would pick up the kid from daycare and he's just, he is, it's on display, buzz, and she's looking at me like did you? You do this. I'm like, nah, lady, we did this.
Speaker 1:This is a you and I situation.
Speaker 4:We created this little fucker and our daughter. She did it too. She's got to be at home, dude, she's upset about everything. Can I have a play date? Not today. Why not? Because you have a thing.
Speaker 2:Oh, my iPad's dead. I'm like did you charge it? I shouldn't have to charge it. Why does he get an ipad? I'm like, oh, my god, oh my god.
Speaker 1:So raises a good question does gentle parenting or being a more emotionally minded parent cause more whining or result in more whining? Is that a side effect that you have to necessarily put up with if you're going that route? I? Think kids are gonna whine, yeah, just because I heard there was a guy that popped up on my tiktok. He is um a grandpa, so an older person speaking to parents. Now, okay, I will preface that he is religious.
Speaker 1:Okay, and his content I don't agree with, but I watched it and saved it in our Real Dad podcast folder and then I get more of it now. Okay, and one of his is about spanking and how he thinks that you need to spank kids and that you need to bring a little bit of pain into their life so that they can understand it. And it was very triggering as somebody who wasn't even spanked, really as a kid. But I listened to mark's story. I think about my life and my stories and I wonder how much better behaved would my kids have been in those circumstances if they were disciplined more strictly in our household.
Speaker 2:But but do you? I don't want my kids to be disciplined like I'm annoyed. I know I'm enraged, but I can't help.
Speaker 1:But like think it, so it's like I I don't agree with it and it's not something that I stand on board with but, I can see how that could be a parent who's struggling, who's just had a shit day with their kid whining and this dude pops up on their Instagram and I was like he's not the person that I want influencing parents. We are the people that I want to influence people, but it's like, do you have to prepare yourself for more whining and be okay with hardships in that way?
Speaker 2:spanking doesn't do anything but release the, the intolerable, like the the adult. It is that release for the taking right that out.
Speaker 2:You're not disciplining a kid by spanking the fear, maybe, but the fear, there's no trust in that thing. They're just they're going to learn how to be mischievous. All you're teaching your kid how to do. In doing that, you're gonna get their release out of your thing there. How do you feel now? You get that little sense of like okay, cool, and then they're just gonna go and do all the shit and be an asshole behind your back. Yeah, so like my kids are at least an asshole to my face, yeah, and then when they go out into the public, they're nice, they're nice kids, yeah, and they're. And then we are the safe things. My only problem is I don't do enough work on myself so I don't have the, the build-up of how I practice patience and all of those things, and that's
Speaker 2:totally a me thing that I need to do better, right, so that them being whining kids whine we've. We whined, our parents whined, their parents whined, right and and all it was was just the. The dads back then used to pass it on to the moms. The moms used to try to guilt them into telling them to stop doing whatever it was. Then our parents passed this on to our grandparents, and then now we're stuck here in a world of emotions and we don't even know how to, or an ocean full of emotions and we don't know how to swim.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think some of it is. We touched on this not too long ago, dave. You can discipline kids into compliance. You can't discipline them into good behavior, because what they'll do is comply around you. They'll listen to you now because they're afraid of you and the discipline that you've inflicted on them. But that's when they go out into the world and they're a piece of shit human, because now they've learned okay. So if I want things to be done my way, I have to inflict that on other people, not try to understand other people and what they're going through, because they were never shown that. Their parent never showed them that they're willing to understand them and what they're going through. And that's what gentle parenting is to me, meet them where they're at and understand where they're at.
Speaker 3:And I think where you, where we have tension with our kids, is an expectation piece, one piece of your story and I don't want to overwork your whole story, but one piece that I found interesting about it is you said you generally go with the flow with your kids and that helps you to, I think, go through those days a little easier because you're kind of reading them and going with it. Where you had set expectations on that day you had plans, you had gone expectations on that day you had plans, you had gone out and got these things. But then when they don't, expectations don't start to get met, then I think to your point. Then it comes down to that work on yourself to be able to switch and make the switch to go with the flow with the kids.
Speaker 2:See, for me, like I've done a lot of reflecting on it because it bothers me. For me, like I've done a lot of reflecting on it because it bothers me, and I think I was so selfish my whole entire life because I almost felt like I had to no-transcript, but I enjoyed being taken care of, like when my grandmother would be willing to do things. I'd be like 100% do all the laundry you want to do and take care of me. And now I'm in a habit where Robin does those things for me. So I'm not used to nurturing and with the intention of, like, teaching or practicing patience, I'm used to being selfish and I'm used to being taken care of, right.
Speaker 2:And when I'm the adult it almost is kind of like a, a nuisance to me, where I'm like I set the expectations because I want to be the fun dad, but when you get thrown a curveball and you're, you're there and you're like this, this isn't going the way, you're frustrated. And now I'm like I don't know how to deal with these emotions except yell or scream or whatever. And we've raised our kids to not tolerate that Right, right. So it's if I yell and scream or I throw the plate down or whatever. My son, who's three, is going to be like well, that's not a good way to handle that and he has the comfort and confidence to be able to put his dad into check, whereas I'm I would have been fear.
Speaker 2:I would never have said that to my parents because I I was afraid of you know whatever repercussion bullshit repercussions you would get, or, you know, spanked or whatever. We never got spanked, but we had slippers thrown on us a couple of times. But it's like I'm proud of how Robin and I are raising the kids collectively. But I really do use her as my anchor because I kind of look to her as like being the qb, and when she's not around and it's on me, I'm like, okay, I've got a plan, I've got the thing, but you can't, you can plan for it anything kids are gonna like literally I've almost lit the house on fire right, the fuck, did you get matches from it's 2025?
Speaker 3:they'll throw you the curveball. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, and it's like I.
Speaker 2:I just sometimes they, they just get the better of me and in those moments I'm, I don't feel good, but I just I also I'm, I'm okay to show the vulnerability and apologize to them, but I just hate having to apologize to them, if that makes any sense because I think we want our kids to be able to like, read and react to situations the way that we would, but they're not us right now they're yeah and they're kids like they are just kids.
Speaker 1:But I found it interesting and I just like bringing up these conversations because I I want to ask the question of what are other parents thinking about right? So like with the spanking. When you go to the comments section, a lot of people like when it's done right, when it's not done through this, when it's not done this way that it can be good. In your opinion, is there any good way of spanking?
Speaker 3:no, no, I just gave my opinion, so to go back to your question, because I was. I think it's a fantastic question. I think it's a fantastic subject that every parent needs to honestly talk to them.
Speaker 2:Talk to your partner and there's no shame either. There's no shame if you, if you feel like spanking your kid is beneficial, you're wrong. But kudos to you and I don't blame you, you.
Speaker 1:But I would like to know the whys of so my take on it is if gentle parenting is done perfectly.
Speaker 3:I don't think you deal with as much whining. I think it's incredibly difficult to gentle parent 24 7, especially in the culture that we live in. So, like you said, dave, I'm coming to this term. Me and meg just had this discussion the other night. We had a fantastic talk the other night, um, and I said to her I don't give myself props for many things in my life and I set pretty high expectations for myself, but I think I'm a fucking good dad and I'll anchor myself on that all day because I care about it that much and I'm putting all the work into myself to be that for my kids, um and I we don't deal with a lot of tantrum tantrums with our two kids like they. They don't get too far with it, um, and I think a lot of it is the work that we put in on our version of gentle parenting, because I think there's a billion different ways. You can even do that, and I think it's becoming a bit of a trigger word, for sure, um, but I think it is putting yourself in your kids shoes when they're going through those high emotions and I think, if you ask yourself how you would deal with them differently. You always would have dealt with them differently.
Speaker 3:Looking back at those intense situations and often it's usually the headspace that I'm in that affects whether or not I can and like Meg and I, focus on it so much and we talk about it almost every day how we parent, how we would like to do things differently. We still fail every day at some point, and it's almost never to do with our kids. It has to do with all the outside pressure that we put on ourselves. Yeah, um, but I think being able to just immediately validate your kid and walk through a situation is what helps them to not have to take it to that next level, to be able to sit down. And I I want to use an example, and I don't I don't want you ever to take it as an attack never, um, because I've been there a thousand times with my kids as well, but, for instance, with the swim shirt.
Speaker 3:From saying I'm not getting in that pool with that swim shirt, I think if the immediate reaction is hey, buddy, this sucks, I'm really sorry that we didn't grab your swim shirt today. That probably makes you feel way more comfortable in the pool and we just don't have it with us right now, and if we go get it back at home right now and get back your swimming lessons over, so then we don't get to do that either. So do you think today we could maybe do it without your swim shirt, but we'll definitely have it next time, then I think that can steer that in a different direction. Rather than again immediately taking away the control of you. Don't get the thing that you always have as a part of your routine, which is putting on your swim shirt. Then he immediately again it goes back to that piece he's lost, that piece of control that he always used is he's used to having what right when you say piece of control, like what does that?
Speaker 3:look like. I think for kids it's every little decision and I think for us as adults, like we've talked about right, we expect them to almost react to life the way that we do, but in reality they don't know the grandeur of life like they think their neighbor's house is the extent of their world, right?
Speaker 3:so I think for them, a simple thing like having the shoes that they want to wear or having the thing that they usually have when they do the thing, that's their big thing, that they're facing, that's their piece of control, that's okay. When I get ready for my swimming, I put my swim trunks on, then I put my shirt on and now I'm ready to go. Oh, I don't where's my shirt. I don't have my shirt. Now my whole routine is thrown off. I need my shirt.
Speaker 3:You're gonna get me my shirt, or I'm not getting in the pool, because that's the piece that they need to complete the routine, or the puzzle, especially since I think we're building our, these little routines around our kids for everything right, like they have their bedtime routine, their wake-up routine, their meal routine, like so. Then you take away a piece of that and then, if it's met with I don't have that and if it's immediately met with, get over it, because to us this is it's a swim shirt, dude, like fucking swim, because the reality is that's what it is. But to them, their reality is much different than ours. Their reality is just that moment and just that decision, and if they can't be followed through with how they see it, then it is a death or not death.
Speaker 4:Like it's life or death right.
Speaker 3:No, that's super helpful perspective.
Speaker 4:for sure, the only pushback I would have to that is like sometimes tantrums, there's so many factors involved and like there's definitely times where it doesn't matter how you're parenting, like you could be trying to parent in all the right ways and it just doesn't matter, like nothing is going to change that you're not going to gain control of that situation it could be overtired.
Speaker 4:It could be yeah, yeah, 100, yeah, yeah like, like I have mentioned before, like with our oldest, when he's sick, like it's, tantrums tend to happen a lot more regularly. Just, I don't know what it is with him um, we are still trying to figure that out all the time but like, yeah, there's just there's so many, in fact, factors involved in, like kids emotions that, yeah, it's like you can't think that you're failing if, as a parent, if those tantrums are happening like more rarely.
Speaker 3:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 4:Or regularly Sorry.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so much is dependent on the kid and, like Murphy's, very similar my daughter, when she's sick her trigger is a lot looser, it's going to get flipped a lot quicker, right, yeah. And during those times, your again. I was going to use the word failures, but they're not failures. Those, just those hard moments of parenting are going to happen more often.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, and your ability to carry a calm sense through them is going to be much more difficult, because your kids on that hairpin trigger all day but especially if you're like I feel like I have been, like I'm either burning out or I'm burnt out, and so my irritability levels are like way more sensitive yeah and with any aspect like a little thing happens, I get a little thing happens, I get a little thing and I'm just like, of course, and that you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:So it's like when something as big as a tension tantrum can be because there's so many hidden triggers in there from, like, your inner child, that it's like it's also challenging, like it just adds layers to the onion where it's like you don't know how good you have it and all those things. Like you said, it's like they, they don't see that other side. And it does help to have these kinds of conversations to kind of gain a better, well, a different perspective. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Cause, like I think that talking about like your, why is it affecting me as a parent that kind of question? And like am I able to be more emotionally stable, to be able to stay calmer in those situations?
Speaker 2:and I think it's important to to have those moments and reflect, whether you have a partner or not, but you're going to be faced with these difficult situations, whether it's a tantrum or whether you know, because of a snack or overtired, or wanting to borrow the car or whatever it is. But I do think it's important to be like how did I handle that situation? And with like are they just crazy or am?
Speaker 3:I you know what I'm saying, like yeah, it's.
Speaker 2:I do think it's important to kind of give yourself a little bit of an evaluation after every yeah, sure, yeah, every one of them.
Speaker 1:It's so hard in the moment to think about the things though, because, like you got me thinking, because we went to the park and we were playing tag, we were playing octopus at the park, so, like, across the swing set, you had to get to the other side.
Speaker 2:When does it? When do you have to? You don't have to be the in the game um, I chose to be in the game this time because my son called me lazy and but I was hurting the last time, so this time.
Speaker 1:I wore my socks, I wore my running shoes, I laced them up. I was ready to go hard and play with the kids. Um, so we're playing octopus and my son got tagged or didn't get tagged. The girls said they tagged him, he said he didn't get tagged. And it became an issue if we tagged you, no, you didn't. Yes, we did, I didn't feel anything, you didn't tag me.
Speaker 1:And it became this battle back and forth and I so badly wanted him to just be like, even if you did or not, all right, like sorry, like maybe I didn't feel it, and just to like let it go. And I, I was so frustrated with him for not being the bigger person, what I thought was being the bigger person in that moment. But as you were talking and saying like, put yourself in your kid's place and what it would have meant to them, where to my son is somebody who's kind of had been bullied when we talked about that and has really found his identity in his speed and his athleticism. So for that to be the thing in question, to me, right, it's this isn't a big deal. Why won't you let this go? But to him, this is my identity. I am the fast athletic person that can dip, dodge and dive and avoid these people and win this game of octopus right like in my mind. I'm like why does it fucking matter?
Speaker 1:to win this game and I'm like I said to him I'm like who is? Why does this matter, man? Like you're not getting a trophy, there's no stats being kept on who wins how many octopus games. Like you're not gaining anything from this other than it's gonna ruin the game because your sisters are gonna be like well, we're not playing anymore, right. And then it just ends it and fizzles it and I'm like why can't you just get over that? So I'm immediately on their side of like, but why don't I jump to his side and be like no, you know what? You didn't tag him. You're gonna have to try harder next time and make it really obvious. Like you're gonna have to like, really lay that tag down and get them good exactly I was so
Speaker 1:frustrated in that circumstance and I'm finding myself in like a place where I'm having a really hard time wanting my kids to grow up and mature, because you're a third born yeah, in my mind I'm like I'm just I'm wanting them to be more mature and be that bigger person and understand something in a bigger way than in like, almost like it feels like a selfish way. I want them to be able to think more of the bigger picture and not care about the tag or not care about the video game that you lost or the card game or something like that but how old were you when you started to think like that?
Speaker 1:that's what I mean.
Speaker 1:I don't know, and it was probably older than this, but it's still like I can't, like I have a hard time with it as a parent right now, where I'm just like you want and like, obviously, like my son is at that pre-teen stage right now too, so he's wanting to be treated like an older kid, but he's still sometimes acting like a little kid who needs to win this game of octopus. In my mind, you're like you want to be treated like a big kid, then don't care about a game of fucking octopus, right? Um? So like I'm finding myself in a hard spot, kind of struggling with that, but I think what you said and thinking about what he is thinking.
Speaker 1:And it's hard to think about what he's thinking in the moment because I'm just thinking what I'm thinking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I find it interesting that someone who gets offended by being called lazy by a 12 year old, oh you ask my friends and I was probably the biggest asshole when I was 11 12, trying to win a game that trying to win a game that doesn't matter like I would have like fought probably with my friends over a game of ball hockey as to whether or not it was a goal or not a goal like my questions would be too, but seriously yeah, yeah, 100.
Speaker 3:I agree there's, there's pieces of that for like first born middle child.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent if you're, if you're siblings, like if you, especially because I have a 10, a brother that's 10 years older than me too, and when I was younger, that's who I wanted to be and that's who, when I was, when I was little, little little that's I was doing everything that they were doing on a smaller scale. And there's just that thing when you get out into the thing, you're like no, I can be like this because you have that role model to like look up to, whereas if you're dealing with a bunch of firstborns, then they're like bro, we're like we're seven, just different things that they're dealing with um.
Speaker 3:My question would be like we talk about the fact that you are the emotional one a lot of the time. Right, you wear your emotions on your sleeve. But how do you look at that? Like, do you look at that under a negative lens sometimes, because you'll talk about the times where you react emotionally in a negative way.
Speaker 3:So then could that be a projection in those moments of your seeing your son react emotionally and getting big and you're thinking I didn't like that part of myself where I would be reactive? Potentially you've learned to love those side of yourselves, the way that you can be vulnerable immediately. But when it isn't, when it is the flip side of that coin, is maybe the side that you don't like about yourself on the emotional standpoint.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I even think back to like I, because like I very much was that, and I can remember the moment that now you're taking me back on this therapy journey. Joey, Thank you for your therapy lessons.
Speaker 3:Because you will remember this moment.
Speaker 1:Yes, when you put it through the window when I almost put our friend Cliff through a window playing like ball hockey in a living room type thing.
Speaker 3:Where there's no trophy and nobody cares who wins.
Speaker 1:I was so competitive at that and that was a very eye-opening moment. And there was maybe like that year or the next year, where I had really hit like flip to switch competitively where, like it doesn't matter and I I wanted the other people's happiness to be bigger than my own happiness, necessarily. Um, but yeah, like I would have been 13, 14 probably then. So I just got two more years of this but, I, think it's that. It's like I'm seeing me and him, right Ah.
Speaker 3:Joey this is therapy.